Thread: www.mywinninglawyer.com

Kwerner if I were obnoxious I could very easily respond by saying its glaringly obvious you have no idea how to read. But I am appreciative of all feedback good and bad. If you read the description of the site in its entirety you can easily see that the site is a Statewide site. Which is why I collected data from MY state only and only referenced neighboring states as a future goal. The key words I am targeting would cost me a fortune to place on even the first 5 pages nationwide so I am not niave in that regard. But I know my state which has approximately 23500 attorneys is possible to rank well in.

When you need an attorney do you look for one nationwide or within your geographical region? I for one don't want to search through a nationwide database to find an attorney 15 minutes away and I'm betting many people feel the same way. So my keywords include my state.

Originally Posted by Yussef

If you read the description of the site in its entirety you can easily see that the site is a Statewide site. Which is why I collected data from MY state only and only referenced neighboring states as a future goal.

Originally Posted by Yussef

When you need an attorney do you look for one nationwide or within your geographical region? I for one don't want to search through a nationwide database to find an attorney 15 minutes away and I'm betting many people feel the same way. So my keywords include my state.

A state directory would likely be easier than a nationwide directory, but still FAR from easy. And you're likely to still be competing with the likes of lawyers.com, even on the state / city level. Therefore, I still stand by my previous comments.

Kwerner I am loving this. I don't use words like "easy" or hard because things that make money are rarely "easy." But I notice you keep mentioning lawyer.com as if that one site will destroy any hopes of my success. Did you ever stop to think that I neeed sites like that to succeed? In fact if you don't have any competition you have to wonder if what your doing is a good idea at all. Question. How mwany burger joints do you have in your city? Now think about how many restaurants added to that still put burgers on their menu and are not burger joints? Do you think anyone would still open a new burger joint knowing so many people are selling and specializing in burgers? Well my market is nowhere near as saturated and I am only looking to capture a small percentage before reinvesting in better SEO. Over and over. The only important people to outrank are the lawyers sites themselves.

What I'm trying to get across to you is that you need to figure out a way to get traffic to your site that doesn't rely on SEO because it's going to be incredibly difficult.

Can it be done? Yes. But in order to outrank the likes of Lawyers.com, Martindale, etc. for "state name, lawyer" or "city name, lawyer", you're talking about a ton of work if you're doing it by yourself or paying out a lot of money if you're hiring someone to do it for you. Plus a lot of time.


Using your analogy of a burger joint... imagine that you're at an intersection of a busy street, you have McDonalds on one corner, Burger King on another, Wendy's on a third corner, and a gas station on the remaining corner... Then, wedged behind the gas station and a small local bank, there's a 300 sq. ft. building... that's where your new burger joint is taking up shop. And from that position you're trying to lure customers to come to your burger joint instead of McDonalds, Burger King, or Wendy's.

That's what you're probably going to be up against in terms of SEO. That's all I'm trying to get across.

Originally Posted by kwerner

What I'm trying to get across to you is that you need to figure out a way to get traffic to your site that doesn't rely on SEO because it's going to be incredibly difficult.

Can it be done? Yes. But in order to outrank the likes of Lawyers.com, Martindale, etc. for "state name, lawyer" or "city name, lawyer", you're talking about a ton of work if you're doing it by yourself or paying out a lot of money if you're hiring someone to do it for you. Plus a lot of time.


Using your analogy of a burger joint... imagine that you're at an intersection of a busy street, you have McDonalds on one corner, Burger King on another, Wendy's on a third corner, and a gas station on the remaining corner... Then, wedged behind the gas station and a small local bank, there's a 300 sq. ft. building... that's where your new burger joint is taking up shop. And from that position you're trying to lure customers to come to your burger joint instead of McDonalds, Burger King, or Wendy's.

That's what you're probably going to be up against in terms of SEO. That's all I'm trying to get across.

Kwern thank you. That just gave me a great question to ask the SEO guy when I speak with him. You see I never said I was an SEO anything but I did mention consulting with the guy that is the SEO expert. I am sure he will let me know the pain behind what I am attemping to do and where I should start. That's why I go to the bakery to get my cakes. I want to eat them not bake them. I could care less about how they do it I just want to know, can you do what I need you to, what it will cost me and how long it will take.


All you need is a goal and a plan to get started. The peices to the puzzle will come together with persistence. You and I have been going back and forth on one peice of this puzzle all day and I am looking at the whole picture of what this could be. Ironically I was eating in Texas Roadhouse during the "burger" part of our conversation and guess what? They are behind a buiilding in the back. To get to them you must pass an outback, tktripps steakhouse, Rueby Teusdays, Lonestar, Longhorn, Golden Corral and a few others to get here that are all on the main road. Yet the parking lot is full. So I guess that proves even the ones in back catch a lucky break too sometimes.

UPDATE. I took a good look at Lawyers.com, put my city in and indeed they had the first and second spot and then there was superpages, then after that just some local lawyers. I agree they have a great looking site but...they list EVERY attorney in the phone book and all you get is a sea of names scrolling down the screen. That's like going to Walmart on Saturday morning for one pack of Koolaid. How does a site like that solve the problem of helping you make a more informed choice when hiring an attorney. I couldve just gone through the phone book and gotten that information. But I went one step further and clicked on a couple of profiles and wouldnt you know it, one attorney's office was 2 hours away and his banner picture was of that city. That tells me all you can get from their site is a name, address and possibly website of an attorney that lives in your state and would handle a case in your area. I personally want an attorney that has good relationships built in the city where I need him, but that's just me. SOOOOO i see another selling point. Thanks.

Yes that is the Purple Cow, or Prize inside that you offer that Lawyers.com does not.

More info, perhaps past client reviews etc.

THAT is what separates you from the others.

NICE!

I just google searched my area and lawyers.

Same thing
1st spot lawyers.com
2nd spot lawyers.com
3rd spot yellow pages
4 - 10 spots just local guys with a website. I know NOTHING about SEO but I would guess you could get on the first page after a few months.

Originally Posted by Yussef

You and I have been going back and forth on one peice of this puzzle all day and I am looking at the whole picture of what this could be.

That "one piece of the puzzle" I've been trying to open your eyes to is *traffic*.

Traffic is the lifeblood of any website. Without traffic to your site, good luck getting any lawyers to pay to advertise on your site, no matter how good your idea is.

But screw it, Runum was right when he said to you "nevermind, you won't listen anyways". I'm done too.

Originally Posted by patrickp

i just google searched my area and lawyers.

Same thing
1st spot lawyers.com
2nd spot lawyers.com
3rd spot yellow pages
4 - 10 spots just local guys with a website. I know nothing about seo but i would guess you could get on the first page after a few months.

Exactly. Lawyers.com is not my target because as long as my site out ranks the attorney's site then that is a major reason you need to be on my site for visibility. In fact I will use their site to iilustrate the point that we do not list any and every attorney just attorneys that meet certain criteria. Too many listings would water down our value and credibility. Our attorneys are not just attorneys ...they are WINNERS.

Originally Posted by kwerner

That "one piece of the puzzle" I've been trying to open your eyes to is *traffic*.

Traffic is the lifeblood of any website. Without traffic to your site, good luck getting any lawyers to pay to advertise on your site, no matter how good your idea is.

But screw it, Runum was right when he said to you "nevermind, you won't listen anyways". I'm done too.

I am listening and I agree this won't be easy. But that wont stop me. I will find someone that knows how to solve that problem plain and simple.

Originally Posted by kwerner

That "one piece of the puzzle" I've been trying to open your eyes to is *traffic*.

Traffic is the lifeblood of any website. Without traffic to your site, good luck getting any lawyers to pay to advertise on your site, no matter how good your idea is.

But screw it, Runum was right when he said to you "nevermind, you won't listen anyways". I'm done too.

Why have the posts on here the last few days gotten emotional?

So you tell him it will be VERY VERY difficult. He says it is ok I will do it.

I am asking 100% seriously, what would have been a better reply?

Is it that he is new and he is not respecting the good advice given out?

Is it that he is saying it will be easy?

Or is it that he doesn't agree with you guys?

I don't see any reason to take these posts personally. If you want to help ok great if not no reason to get personal.

I know because I DID take some posts personally and I apologize last week.

MJ has provided a GREAT forum for us for free.

I think we can all exchange ideas and try and help. If someone doesn't wan the help ok great just don't offer it to them anymore but no reason to turn it into something that upsets you.

Just move on and don't give it another thought.

Originally Posted by PatrickP

If someone doesn't wan the help ok great just don't offer it to them anymore

Ya know, you're probably right... if he wants to spend fifty grand between building his website, creating content, doing the SEO, and waiting 12-18 months to possibly see results, who am I to stop him.

Kwerner I do agree with a lot of what you said. Please don't take my comments as a sign of ungratefulness. I know we will run into potential customers that will try to run our assess through the ringer. So you offered me quite a few things to prepare for. I know compared to a Website like lawyers.com we have some disadvantages but I just choose to focus on the few advantages we do have. I respect you and I thank you but unfortunately I become more motivated when someone tells me why I can't do something. Yes I may fail. But I don't fail until I quit and I just don't see enough reasons for me to quit. I know the power of good old fashion face to face salesmanship. And that is how we will promote this in the beginning. As I said this idea was born from a personal experience and millions of ideas have been born by similar circumstances. The fact that you spent this much time on this thread tells me you are willing to help and I had no intention of offending you. But if I am going to be the leader of this project its my duty to burn the ships. No retreat.

Originally Posted by kwerner

Ya know, you're probably right... if he wants to spend fifty grand between building his website, creating content, doing the SEO, and waiting 12-18 months to possibly see results, who am I to stop him.

Thanks for your response.

Originally Posted by Yussef

Kwerner I do agree with a lot of what you said. Please don't take my comments as a sign of ungratefulness. I know we will run into potential customers that will try to run our assess through the ringer. So you offered me quite a few things to prepare for. I know compared to a Website like lawyers.com we have some disadvantages but I just choose to focus on the few advantages we do have. I respect you and I thank you but unfortunately I become more motivated when someone tells me why I can't do something. Yes I may fail. But I don't fail until I quit and I just don't see enough reasons for me to quit. I know the power of good old fashion face to face salesmanship. And that is how we will promote this in the beginning. As I said this idea was born from a personal experience and millions of ideas have been born by similar circumstances. The fact that you spent this much time on this thread tells me you are willing to help and I had no intention of offending you. But if I am going to be the leader of this project its my duty to burn the ships. No retreat.

But if I am going to be the leader of this project its my duty to burn the ships. No retreat.


Burn the ships no retreat!

I LOVE IT! I should think about that more so I get my lazy azz going and stop thinking of reason NOT to do things.

THANKS!

Originally Posted by PatrickP

But if I am going to be the leader of this project its my duty to burn the ships. No retreat.


Burn the ships no retreat!

I LOVE IT! I should think about that more so I get my lazy azz going and stop thinking of reason NOT to do things.

THANKS!

Dude major news. Kwerner helped me to really focus on what I needed to set my site apart from lawyers.com and whether the sites name embodies what we were trying to do and I didnt really feel it did well enough. So I got to brainstorming and checking names and I came up with one that I feel is an even better fit....www.attorneyinspector.com .The domain was available and I rushed home to get it. Very catchy and it embodies what makes our site unique. We dont just list the attorneys we allow you to inspect the details of why you should hire them. So I owe you guys a huge thank you.The logo guys will have a ball with this one.

Originally Posted by PatrickP

But if I am going to be the leader of this project its my duty to burn the ships. No retreat.


Burn the ships no retreat!

I LOVE IT! I should think about that more so I get my lazy azz going and stop thinking of reason NOT to do things.

THANKS!

Dude major news. Kwerner helped me to really focus on what I needed to set my site apart from lawyers.com and how the current site name embodies what we are doing and I didnt really feel it did well enough. So I got to brainstorming and checking names and I came up with one that I feel is an even better fit....www.attorneyinspector.com .The domain was available and I rushed home to get it. Very catchy and it embodies what makes our site unique. We dont just list the attorneys we allow you to inspect the details of why you should hire them. So I owe you guys a huge thank you.The logo guys will have a ball with this one.