Thread: Suze Orman. Genius or clown?

Overheard by me:

"Suze Orman advice? You would extract more knowledge if you took all her books, put them in a bag, and let someone beat you mercilessly with it"

Here is her show in a nutshell:

"You can't afford it"

Should I buy this house?
No!
Can I buy this car?
No!
Can I buy a watch?
No!
How about a $1 Jr Whopper?!
No!


Now don't get me wrong- she teaches some things. But to me it's like she is teaching people who are floating in the river of shit how to maneuver around the rocks - instead of how to get to the shore and build a hut.

I can't take her seriously with that extremely fake tan and murderous grin. but I do think her and Donny Deutsch would make an interesting couple.

People who can, stop listening and reading and go out and do. People who can't, are found by the tv set every day watching that show.

It has been said that Suze speaks to a different crowd than us. Well, one of my tenants frequently speaks of Suze as he is signing over his rent check every month. He always asks me if I listen to her and what do I think about what she says. The tenant says he is considering buying a house and he's very worried about it. I'm thinking he's considering buying A house and I'm considering buying apartment buildings. I already own enough houses. Yep definitely a different crowd and different mindset for Suze's audience.

Saw an informercial for some of her products late last night. From that I gather she is a Clown. At the very minimum her ideas (but not implementation) is slowlane.

Wow, what an old thread ... but rehashed with news.

Older article which highlights my bone of contention ...
Is Suze Orman out of touch? – MSN Money

Orman estimated her liquid net worth at about $25 million, with an additional $7 million worth of houses. With just $1 million of that in stocks, it means that just 4% of her liquid net worth is in the stock market.

What does Orman do with the rest of her money? Solomon asked, and was told: "Save it and build it in municipal bonds. I buy zero-coupon municipal bonds, and all the bonds I buy are triple-A-rated and insured so that even if the city goes under, I get my money. I take a little lower interest rate to make sure my bonds are 100% safe and sound.

Hmmm ... this is the Fastlane destination. Stockpile cash and let the bonds do the work.

In fact, Orman's portfolio is reminiscent of a story about Groucho Marx, the famous comedian who purportedly once toured the New York Stock Exchange and held court with the floor traders after the closing bell.

Knowing that Groucho was wealthy, one trader yelled out, "Hey Groucho, where do you invest your money?"

"I keep my money in Treasury bonds," is what the leader of the Marx brothers reportedly replied.

"They don't make you much money," a trader shouted back.

"They do," Groucho said drolly, "if you have enough of them."

Groucho always made me feel good and laugh, but I wouldn't want him as my financial adviser. Orman makes people feel good too, but that doesn't make her the right adviser for the bulk of her audience.

"The big problem with Suze Orman is that she appears to be a below-average financial planner," says Bob Veres, a leading commentator on the financial-planning world and author of the new novel "Song of the Universe," in which the protagonist is a financial adviser.

"She scores very high on the personality index, but very low on the knowledge and understanding of the complex issues that face a lot of her audience. She's giving generic, simple solutions to people's most difficult problems, and judging from her portfolio, she's taking them on a path she really hasn't traveled herself."

Suze Orman Sued For Fraud - Forbes.com

But again, MJ, we are not her audience, and I've never heard her say that her advice is for everyone...for the most part, her audience is people who will very, very likely never even consider "fastlane" principles, even if they were to handed to them...

If Suze Orman were to write a book geared towards people like us, it would likely be a very different message, because our attitudes, goals, and abilities are different than her typical audience.

Here's an analogy:

If you and my mom were to both go to a race track for driving lessons, do you think the instructor would give both of you the same advice? Moreover, would you call the racing instructor a fraud because he gave my mother different advice than he actually followed himself?

I still give poker lessons now and again, and I'm certainly not going to give the same advice to the guy who plays professionally at the $100-200 No-Limit game at the Bellagio as I would the guy who is about to play in the $1-2 home-game and just wants to know how he can make his buy-in last as long as possible...they have different skill levels, goals, and probably different long-term aspirations, and to treat them the same is doing both of them a disservice.

I realize that you're probably thinking, "Everyone should be introduced to fastlane principles, because anyone can wealthy if they have the motivation and the education." Unfortunately, most people don't have the motivation, even if they have the education. So, why spend time educating them when they will never put the lessons into action anyway.

Just my $.02...

Originally Posted by JScott

If Suze Orman were to write a book geared towards people like us, it would likely be a very different message, because our attitudes, goals, and abilities are different than her typical audience.

And that is my point -- that is the book she should be writing because it would be those principles that made her rich -- not what she espouses. "Suze Orman on how to make millions selling books and building a worldwide brand." <-- That's what I want to read!!

Originally Posted by JScott

I still give poker lessons now and again, and I'm certainly not going to give the same advice to the guy who plays professionally at the $100-200 No-Limit game at the Bellagio as I would the guy who is about to play in the $1-2 home-game and just wants to know how he can make his buy-in last as long as possible...they have different skill levels, goals, and probably different long-term aspirations, and to treat them the same is doing both of them a disservice.

Sorry, but I don't see the logic. You'd be teaching both parties principles that made you a successful poker player. Yes, the advice would be different pertaining to each party, but your advice would be a product of your experience which made you successful in poker. You are a practitioner of your advice. You traveled the road. You've been there.

Suze's money advice is a not a product of what made her successful. Far from it. She is not a practitioner of her advice and hasn't traveled the road, therefore, I will continue to assert, is a fraud.

If she came clean and disclaimed: "BTW, these principles did not make me rich and I have no idea if they will work for you", then this would not be a topic of disgruntlement.

MPOV.

Lmao at the tags for this thread lol.

I was thinking of posting then decided against it untill I read it lol.

Edit Tags Tags
suze orman fraud, suze orman hypocrite, suze orman sucks

Originally Posted by PhxMJ

Suze's money advice is a not a product of what made her successful. Far from it. She is not a practitioner of her advice and hasn't traveled the road, therefore, I will continue to assert, is a fraud.

Okay, let me try one more analogy...

Imagine a chef who earned fame and fortune creating amazing fine dining experiences in some of the most renowned restaurants in the world. He writes a cookbook with basic recipes for people with no cooking experience who want to learn how to cook. But, of course, he doesn't teach them how to cook fine-dining like he does...he teaches them how to be *competent* cooks with skills that will allow them to eat nice meals for the rest of their lives -- which is all his readers are really looking for.

Is the chef a fraud because he is selling information that is contrary to how he earned his fame and fortune? Even if he doesn't have a big disclosure in the book that says, "I got rich and famous making elaborate meals, but am only teaching you how to make basic meals."

Is he doing a disservice to all his cookbook readers because they're not being given the same advice and skills that made him famous and world-renowned?

And most importantly, is his advice untrustworthy because he chooses not to follow the same cooking path that he is espouses in his cookbooks?

Suze Orman espouses the belief that if you work hard, save your money in a diversified manner, and don't spend recklessly, you'll live a comfortable life without having to worry about money in retirement. And, for most people, I think that's true, regardless of the recent short-term activity in the stock market. Is it true for everyone? Of course not.

But, that's just like "fastlane" principles -- not everyone will succeed with them, even if they follow all the rules and try really, really hard. Does that mean you're giving bad advice? Of course not...you're giving great advice, but even great advice isn't going to work for everyone in every situation.

Perhaps we just disagree on this topic (or more likely, we have points of view that are slightly askew). Perhaps we can at least agree that Suze Orman is likely doing what she believes is right/best thing for her followers, which is more than what most "gurus" care to do...

I'll drop it now...

The book "Young, fabulous and broke" was a stepping stone for me to get out of debt. She has a lot of good ideas for in that particular book. But I hear her now espousing that you should live off of 50% of your income. Hell I do that now with child support payments. Now I have to go 50% lower?


She is out of touch with reality again. Young Fabulous and broke, Is a good book for the average rat-racer but The rest of her stuff is garbage. It's a stepping stone to get out of the ditch and at least onto the shoulder of the road to get you ready to merge onto the highway.

Imagine a chef who earned fame and fortune creating amazing fine dining experiences in some of the most renowned restaurants in the world. He writes a cookbook with basic recipes for people with no cooking experience who want to learn how to cook. But, of course, he doesn't teach them how to cook fine-dining like he does...he teaches them how to be *competent* cooks with skills that will allow them to eat nice meals for the rest of their lives -- which is all his readers are really looking for.

I totally understand what you are saying but I don't think you are looking deeper into the person, and are too focused on the audience. Why is that CHEF competent to teach me "basic cooking" techniques? Simple. Because he USES THEM and PRACTICES them. That oil he wants you to use to fry up that chicken? He uses it in his Pasta Primavera dish. His cookbook would be the basics of his craft that he uses every day.

Ms. Orman doesn't use the tools of her craft and by measure of your analogy, has never cooked a meal.

In effect, legions of people are taking poker advice from a person who made millions running a poker website, yet they never won a tournament nor won a dollar playing the actual game. Sure, the poker room owner is versed on Poker, but his medium to millions is not the same. I will always find it disingenuous unless the rouse is either disclaimed or disclosed.

Originally Posted by PhxMJ

Ms. Orman doesn't use the tools of her craft and by measure of your analogy, has never cooked a meal.

Okay, I think I see where we are in disagreement...

We see "the tools of her craft" being different things. I think you look at Suze Orman's teaching (also Dave Ramsey and others) as a group of detailed financial strategies and mindsets, while I look at these things as a group of basic math and tax concepts.

In my opinion, the Suze Orman method preaches the understanding of (or at least the implementation of) things like compound interest, diversification, ROI, tax-free saving, etc.

And these ARE the same things that Suze Orman uses in her own quest to for wealth. For example, she is quite familiar with the idea of compound interest (I would hope), the use of diversification (she has her books, her TV shows, her seminars, her municipal bonds, her stocks, her real estate), the value of tax-free saving (she probably has an amazing CPA), etc.

So, in my opinion, she very, very much uses the tools she teaches to her students to get rich.

But, I also see your point of view that part of her toolset is a mindset, and that particular thing she doesn't share at all. Which makes complete sense.

WOW, really great thread, I wish I could give everyone rep+! I am particularly impressed with how there is so much discussion and no one is getting PO'ed just because the opinions vary. There is a lot of wisdom within all of these posts and everyone has made some very good points. And ultimately, although stated in different ways there does seem to be consensus. Robert Kiyosaki's advice could be interpreted the same way yet many of us are where we are because of his information and the way it was presented at the time that we each received it.

I have said it in many posts and I am sure I will say it again...

Due diligence.

Everyone, no matter where you are in life, can only be responsible and accountable to and for themselves. What better way to live by that than by applying your own due diligence to ANY advice form anyone, any time, all of the time?

Orman's advice is good for $40k a year Joe six pack with two car loans and a bunch of CC debt. Joe six pack doesn't want to make a ton of money or run a business. He just wants to lead a secure financial life, and be able to retire at some point, with a few fun toys in between and some football games.

She is making money selling her advice, like any other product.

I have seen her show a few times and I always thought her advice was sound, it won't make the callers rich, but thats not the point. They want the $13k visa balance paid off not a Lambo.

I'd love to see someone like Gus or Steve call in for her "can you afford it" part of the show. I think that could be pretty funny, throw her a curve.