Learnt Copywriting? ...This is the next step.

[Silverhawk851]

Now that a lot of people are coming off the Gary Halbert Challenge, I wanted to share an idea on where they can take their skills from here to start rolling in some serious profits.

After practicing copy-writing for a while, I had a feeling of "OK, should I do mail order now?"

Not necessarily. There's another way.

So the question I asked myself is you can write decent copy...but what are you going to do if nobody can read it?

Copy writing is ALL about putting the desires of people first....and for that you need to find the people.


It's that simple.

From my learning through reading Z's old posts (Which i HIGHLY recommend to any newbie that's lost), it's almost impossible to make money once you have a certain formula set.
All credit goes to @zen*******!


The formula comes in the form of Paid Traffic.

Step 1: STOP looking for a product, Find a group of people who have a need!

Find out a bunch of people who have something in common, a group of some sort and where they hang out online. Example, Video gamers who play WorldofWarcraft hang around a couple sites like warcraftworld.com. Many of them want to up their status in the game, and may be willing to buy a product that will do that for them. Market an eBook to them about how to up their level!

The idea is you CANNOT create desire, only direct it.

So FIND OUT AND FILL NEEDS THAT PEOPLE ALREADY HAVE!

Sign up for any of these Display Networks, listed on this site:
http://www.warriorforum.com/ad-netw...43-huge-list-ad-networks-traffic-sources.html

and figure out a demographic with a need.


Step 2: Find an offer that appeals to their need

Once you've identified where a group of people with a need hang out (a TRAFFIC SOURCE), figure out how you can fill that need. What product or service can you offer them that would make them feel that they need to spend money to get this service to fill that need.

I.e. The need has to be greater than the pain of paying the $.

Example, a website for pregnant women and mothers to be, is http://www.babycenter.ca/
What you can do is market things that those women on those website are looking for, stretch-mark creams, enhanced vitamin baby food, ebook that shows techniques of increasing baby IQ and health.

Here is where you can find an offer: http://www.offervault.com/?sort=payout&order=desc

Step 3: Create the Funnel

Create the ad that you will put on the site (publisher). You have to make sure it maximizes the amount of clicks going to your landing page, where there will be copy that will intensify the desire, and eliminate pains to purchase.

You want to explain every detail of the benefits they will get, not just a description of what the product does.

At the bottom you will create a buy now button, a Call To Action.

Step 4: TEST TEST TEST TEST

You will create atleast 3 offers for every demographic, and test atleast 5 ads, 5 landing pages, 5 copies.
You will need a website, you will NOT need to know how to code!

(Use Wordpress, You can have a website put up in 20 minutes. Watch this video:

)

You must have atleast 300 clicks on each combination of Offer + AD + Copy + landing page to fairly assess the performance of each variable.
10,000 Impression (views) for each Ad, you'll know how well it's working by how many clicks.

To figure out what works the best you'll need to know the numbers. For that, you'll need tracking.

These are the 2 top tracking softwares out there:
http://www.cpvlab.com/
http://prosper.tracking202.com/apps/

Step 5: Identify the Winner and SCALE

Once you have figured out the winning ad, the one profitable Golden Goose egg, the formula it takes to make a profit, you SCALE.

Run it hard and fast, as much as you can. Find other traffic sources with the same demographic, group of people hanging out. Advertise to them as well.

Roll in the benjamins, baby! Then reinvest the profit till your hitting some numbers that would've made you sweat bullets just a few months ago


Rinse and Repeat.


I understand this might not provide all the details, but my purpose is to show you where you can apply the skills you've learnt.

The rest you'll have to work for

Any thoughts, comments, flames and suggestions are encouraged


Check out these threads for more info:
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/1-year-later-now-what.44565/
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/ama-25m-in-affiliate-mktg-revenue-exiting-the-game-ask-me-anything.48221/

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[IceCreamKid]

Bro, this post is solid! Rep transferred. Good to finally talk to you the other night.

Holler at me if you ever find yourself in Cali and need a place to stay.

 

[Disobey]

Great thread, Thank you @Silverhawk851

While i'm not yet done with the 30 day challenge, I still have a burning desire to test what I've learned so far. They say one learns faster by DOING anyway.

My only worry is that my budget is kinda short for paid traffic. Not an excuse though, I'll find a way.

 

[Silverhawk851]

My only worry is that my budget is kinda short for paid traffic. Not an excuse though, I'll find a way.

No worries. Dude it should not cost you more than a hundred bucks or so to test out a campaign. WAY cheaper than mail order.
Unless you want to try selling mail order brides, I hear they sell themselves

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Disobey]

Unless you want to try selling mail order brides, I hear they sell themselves

That sure looks like an interesting niche :embarrased:

Anyway thank you for reassuring me, I was thinking it would cost something like low $xxxx but a hundred buck is well within my budget.

Gonna write till my fingertips are bleeding!

 

[Jimmyy]

Now that a lot of people are coming off the Gary Halbert Challenge, I wanted to share an idea on where they can take their skills from here to start rolling in some serious profits.

After practicing copy-writing for a while, I had a feeling of "OK, should I do mail order now?"

Not necessarily. There's another way.

So the question I asked myself is you can write decent copy...but what are you going to do if nobody can read it?

Copy writing is ALL about putting the desires of people first....and for that you need to find the people.


It's that simple.

From my learning through reading Z's old posts (Which i HIGHLY recommend to any newbie that's lost), it's almost impossible to make money once you have a certain formula set.
All credit goes to @zen*******!


The formula comes in the form of Paid Traffic.

Step 1: STOP looking for a product, Find a group of people who have a need!

Find out a bunch of people who have something in common, a group of some sort and where they hang out online. Example, Video gamers who play WorldofWarcraft hang around a couple sites like warcraftworld.com. Many of them want to up their status in the game, and may be willing to buy a product that will do that for them. Market an eBook to them about how to up their level!

The idea is you CANNOT create desire, only direct it.

So FIND OUT AND FILL NEEDS THAT PEOPLE ALREADY HAVE!

Sign up for any of these Display Networks, listed on this site:
http://www.warriorforum.com/ad-netw...43-huge-list-ad-networks-traffic-sources.html

and figure out a demographic with a need.


Step 2: Find an offer that appeals to their need

Once you've identified where a group of people with a need hang out (a TRAFFIC SOURCE), figure out how you can fill that need. What product or service can you offer them that would make them feel that they need to spend money to get this service to fill that need.

I.e. The need has to be greater than the pain of paying the $.

Example, a website for pregnant women and mothers to be, is http://www.babycenter.ca/
What you can do is market things that those women on those website are looking for, stretch-mark creams, enhanced vitamin baby food, ebook that shows techniques of increasing baby IQ and health.

Here is where you can find an offer: http://www.offervault.com/?sort=payout&order=desc

Step 3: Create the Funnel

Create the ad that you will put on the site (publisher). You have to make sure it maximizes the amount of clicks going to your landing page, where there will be copy that will intensify the desire, and eliminate pains to purchase.

You want to explain every detail of the benefits they will get, not just a description of what the product does.

At the bottom you will create a buy now button, a Call To Action.

Step 4: TEST TEST TEST TEST

You will create atleast 3 offers for every demographic, and test atleast 5 ads, 5 landing pages, 5 copies.
You will need a website, you will NOT need to know how to code!

(Use Wordpress, You can have a website put up in 20 minutes. Watch this video:

)

You must have atleast 300 clicks on each combination of Offer + AD + Copy + landing page to fairly assess the performance of each variable.
10,000 Impression (views) for each Ad, you'll know how well it's working by how many clicks.

To figure out what works the best you'll need to know the numbers. For that, you'll need tracking.

These are the 2 top tracking softwares out there:
http://www.cpvlab.com/
http://prosper.tracking202.com/apps/

Step 5: Identify the Winner and SCALE

Once you have figured out the winning ad, the one profitable Golden Goose egg, the formula it takes to make a profit, you SCALE.

Run it hard and fast, as much as you can. Find other traffic sources with the same demographic, group of people hanging out. Advertise to them as well.

Roll in the benjamins, baby! Then reinvest the profit till your hitting some numbers that would've made you sweat bullets just a few months ago


Rinse and Repeat.


I understand this might not provide all the details, but my purpose is to show you where you can apply the skills you've learnt.

The rest you'll have to work for

Any thoughts, comments, flames and suggestions are encouraged


Check out these threads for more info:
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/1-year-later-now-what.44565/page-6
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...exiting-the-game-ask-me-anything.48221/page-5

Wow awesome post dude, much appreciated!

(@Marvin - think this the kind of thing you were looking!)

 

[DrkSide]

@Silverhawk851 Awesome post! Rep $$ Transferred.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Riddic4766]

Rep trasferred!! Thanks!

 

[RogueInnovation]

I really like the "find the market first" idea, then doing diligence on which paid traffic sources are best (so you know you have a viable shot), then picking a winning way of reaching the audience. Because, all you have to do then is find a product for a good price, and set it all up.

Btw, this applies to more than just copywriting
Example: I drew up a list of about fifty services I can provide through my biz, so how then do I streamline all of those choices into a few good ones?
I'll leave your imagination to figure it out, but the main gist is very similar to what you described about copywriting.

 

[Silverhawk851]

I really like the "find the market first" idea, then doing diligence on which paid traffic sources are best (so you know you have a viable shot), then picking a winning way of reaching the audience. Because, all you have to do then is find a product for a good price, and set it all up.

I think the basics of business are constant, no matter if your medium is online, brick and mortar, or cardboard box under a bridge.
If you can locate a strong DESIRE people have, figure out how you can fill it, and have them convinced them that it filled it well, your golden.

I'm curious, how would you do that? I'm assuming create dummy landing pages and test the market to see if there is a need

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[RogueInnovation]

If you can locate a strong DESIRE people have, figure out how you can fill it, and have them convinced them that it filled it well, your golden.

Very well put

I'm curious, how would you do that? I'm assuming create dummy landing pages and test the market to see if there is a need

Well for me it is always hard to make decisions without something hard to look at (mostly because I like to be reminded of the starkness of truth, or the fear of it or something, it turns my mind on).
But first for me, I started with cashflow because to buy paid traffic you need to have an idea of ins and outs and a few aims otherwise it is "chicken and egg" inside your head.

A cashflow might start like "it takes me x long to look through y amount of options. What is my expected return time vs intel, what is the cheapest/best avenue to get the information I need to make a clear choice" and then after I get some more information I chuck on some maximums and minimums per month depending on what choices I have (so I can have a ball park of what that part of the project will cost).

Then I take a look at the market segments I have available and try to organise them into types by looking at what makes them similar and different, and I look at extra costs.
I'll need to know what markets are going to burn money fast, which are going to be repeat sales, and which are going to be more downhill. I'll then have a sense of what kind of ins and outs will happen on a monthly basis on a sliding scale.

Then to be honest I will want to see how effective the adspace is, and if guys are having success there or if clients pay attention to ads in those niches. If so, I'll note down the "keys" to each space so that by looking across my choices I can see which ones I can naturally best deliver on.

Then to develop test pages you find a compelling offer that people respond to. Then tweak around with it to find if they are responding to changes or flat lining (also checking bounce rates etc). Assuming they respond or that you capture a level of attention, you then wanna justify if it can cover the expence of your time or if it is better elsewhere.

As for the sales page, I think a mock up can suffice, just make it super clear and clean (no fancy wish wash). You don't wanna "dance for them" like the court jester to get sales it'll tire you out and you won't be able to continue the investment.

Then you need to set up some aims and figure out what you are really going to do with the info you have. All in all it might take a couple days hard work. Find a good product, in a good industry niche, and get sales converting as soon as you can.

Right now I'm juggling some service concepts, and to test each of those I catagorise them based on needs and output, demand before sale and satisfaction after the sale (can this be a longterm simmer, or does it burn fast and hot?), that way I can judge what it is going to require of me, or a team and then I can judge if it is realistic for me or not. I can also predict a few future mishaps or "stuff that can go wrong will go wrong" and figure out if its worth the effort.

If the investment is worth the effort after diligence, I then might write up what I expect more time put into it might do, by cross referencing with competitors. Does it have that "yes factor" for me? Does it meet the core things I need for investing my time and energy? If not, then why not? Is there another approach I can take I am not seeing?

My process might not be as clear and experienced as some of the pros, but it gets me from A to B. The general idea is that you need to filter out a lot of businesses to get to the cream, and once you position yourself diligently within cream, you then can remake the service so it has impact, CENTS principles, and then optimise and sell the hell out of it.

Then, you hire out your code, and your design (from the results of testing of course) you neaten up the edges, perfect your understanding of need, and make sure your little money tree pays a creamy dividend


Whatever you do, don't start with product (I created this lame product a few weeks back thinking I could test if I could sell it with my skills, it was the last stupid thing I am ever going to do) because if you start with product your copy suffers (shoving the writer into a crampt little box) and you just start sinking and consuming WAY too much time.
I have like 50 services, and I can't create them all, so my go to move is what you describe in the op, because it is the only way I can get something to focus on that I like.

Try not to think that making a product means that you will like selling it.
Find the products you like selling, what standards they have, what sort of processes they require, and what the people are like. Then be present with the people and with the processes and get it sparkling. Then if you like selling that, you can then investigate other interests and use its cashflow for other projects.

 

[Stephanos83]

Great thread Silverhawk. Rep+

 

[Silverhawk851]

@RogueInnovation Killer post. When testing, how many variables do you start off with? Ads, Landing pages, offers, copy?

Btw, you NEED to check out this post.

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/epic-media-buying-thread.51073/#post-343285

Unreal stuff.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[RogueInnovation]

Wow, looks like I've got some homework (nice!) thanks for the link

When testing, how many variables do you start off with? Ads, Landing pages, offers, copy?

Well, I had about 50 services recently, and I had the idea to repackage them into three core services. I looked for a pattern, and out of the fifty I "highlighted" a few services for each sector (first grouping like services then pointing out a few highlight differences in the groups), which allowed me to say "these are high traffic, these are luxury, these are core" (each thing, if it exists, has a virtue, I tried to identify what that virtue was and if it was performing as it should).

Once I had the idea that there was luxury service (bam premium), high traffic (bam ads), core (bam products), I saw what revenue models each paticular service strategy needed, and that helped me know what to test (and research).

So, ads, landing pages, offers and copy relate to the specific service structure. Premium doesn't want landing pages (does it? I'll have to research that, but I don't think it does), high traffic are responding to "gold rush" mentalities (copy is great off the side, signups and irresistable offers etc), core services always pull in comments for deeper explaination (wanna send them somewhere nice to convert the purchase).

The variables I tested had to relate to key ideas and validate the business concept as well as demonstrate that it can be implemented at scale.
So some tests are just nuts and bolts, scale, useability, general understanding of its use, whilst others are about validating a direction, then seeing what the reasoning is behind it.

One you get the reasoning down, nuts and bolts tidied up, direction set, you then need your logistics in place for launch (I'm still working on that part, mostly its numbers and other metrics so launch is staring you in the face).

I'd say that copy helps you interface with the public, so that your business can be put to use, testing just makes sure you are in the right place with the right aims. Copy writing won't help you if you are dumb about positioning, so you need the concept, and a few backup plans to pivot with if things go different than you expect. You hedge your bets and minimise downside risks by doing what you can to cut down on liabilities and maximise retention of assets.


When you are launching any product you want to keep the cores of investment in mind because ultimately you have to make a judgement call based on whether the market responds to these kinds of services or not (and the why will surprise you unless you dive in and pound pavement).

If that idea doesn't work, you need another one to fail fast with.

I've heard that zen******* launched a six month thought child in a few days by getting the code, A/V and copy guys together to launch it, he didn't seem fussed at all. My guess was that he looked at the opportunity and said "yup, thats the one I will do", so obviously there is a certain degree of your own mojo involved in choosing one and pulling the trigger.

Like I said, my experience was more with refining services, but if I was finding a key product I'd look at
- What they need
- What they want
- What they buy
And I'd make sure to test that the product combined with good copy has a robust chance at doing just what the market said it will.

 

[Silverhawk851]

@RogueInnovation I'm seeing the process behind this, great posts

Lol Don't know what industry your in but 50 services sounds like serious logistics :|

So Rogue, what's your strategy for advertising the 3 brands, what methods of placement are you using? Direct buys onto straight websites that have your target market, or have you looked into doing Managed Buys, handing over your landing pages, copy, and banners to CPA networks, having them manage and optimize for you?

 

[BlokeInProgress]

@Silverhawk851 this post rocks, rekindled my ideas! Rep transferred thanks a lot.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[RogueInnovation]

Don't know what industry your in but 50 services sounds like serious logistics :|

You have that right, that used to be my face most of the time. I looked at the sheet of things to do and was like "that is not even possible" thankfully approaching it as 50 services would be newbie and rediculous. And thankfully I'm smart enough to see that a few services will suffice. Consolodation business ideas tend to have that kind of issue (and I'm consolodating because I want large scale). Steve jobs took what can be thousands of little programs and pulls them together to create a great bundle of services through the iphone. To me that is consolodation at its finest.

Overwhelming challenges aside, there definately does seem to be a pattern (if you can discern it lemme know, I'm on instinct atm). Its about how you react to each new item, noting the forks in the road, and then checking if they are where they should be. Which really is an assessment process or examination. Most people "imagine" that they examine something (they really just take people's word for it), but I guess the point is to dive in and make some declarations (that oppose the status quo), look for the keys that matter, and don't say yes until you see something worthwhile appearing and having a good BS radar.

So Rogue, what's your strategy for advertising the 3 brands, what methods of placement are you using?

Thats actually a huge question for me, not easily answerable regarding my project. My mentor runs with some of the biggest brands in the world so I am trying to master the process as we speak (as they do it). A lot of that comes down to design, functionality and other processes that don't at first seem related to marketting, clarity and fit really. So my marketting plans are shaped by and influenced by that level of intensity.

What most don't realise is that how you approach a specific target market matters.
Where you see us, why you see us, when you see us, what is around you whilst you see us, how you see us, what you see of us.
So I think in terms of People first, so regarding my affiliates, I have to have good relationships with them to leverage different deals than they offer usually(don't wanna get squeezed into a box). I then have to think in regards to how I can turn fragmented advertising real estate and make it palateable to my audience (since the avenues aren't fully established). I then want to make sure my messages are cutting cleanly through the fog of whatever mess I am in and project a very real sense of confidence (I research the gossip going on behind certain marketting sources, and assess if its feasible that I can clearly get a message through there).

Mostly that comes down to testing if my setup is the best it can be(its not at the moment, so I am trying to pull together loose strings and tie them into ribbons by being flexible).
But in short, I fit the service with the source of advertising, so premium is advertised where it can have most impact (where people already have heard of the service), products are distinguished from affiliates but advertised as core staples of the scene (injecting them with desire and expectation), and high traffic goes to the easily distracted masses everywhere and is kept light and engaging(copy helps out a lot here).

So in reality, you just wanna be conscious of what is going on, rather than blindly swinging my Ed#ck around (humility really). I am juggling, and not sure of what exact measures I will take, but if you get you head sorted out first, the logistics of which streams to use become easier because you will know what you are looking for.

I really do sit on the process a lot because I haven't figured it all out yet. But regarding copy, I think you can just target the need.
If someone is looking for a boxing mit, chances are, they might be delaying on buying it because they can't be bothered looking it up on ebay or are worried that it might be too pricey in the store they usually go to, so the advantage in this scenario is that if someone comes to a fitness related area of the web, they probably have that mit in mind. So from there it is a sales by correspondance kind of thing with customers.
- Get excited about training! Our high quality mits are a fraction of the price in local stores, its so easy, money back garuntee, order with us or find out more now.
- The boxing mit is one of the most effective training devices to keep you in fighting fit shape, it dramatically increases the effectiveness of your workouts and is tons of fun to use.
- Our standard is blah, made of xyz, and sewn with blah, it has x benefits against y and z. Or our premium mit is blah, used by blah, and has an incredible backstory of blah
- Offer shipping or a free something if they do xyz

Organise it really clean, don't give them reasons not to buy, and you'll easily be able to look at sales and say "hey we should go to those affiliates and advert spots instead/aswell".

Humble, clean, aware, to the point, closing the deal, reacting to the marketting opportunities, identifying forks, noting where they should be, thinking on expansion or adjustment opportunities etc.

If I were doing that for real, I'd probably whip up a dozen prototypes where I can use the same work for most of them, so that I have a large enough spread to figure things out. Then pick a few favorites, and get into nuts and bolts and choose a strategy that would best reimburse me.
I tangle with as many services as I do because I am thinking a few steps ahead (do I wanna sell boxing mits? Or will I want something more after I sell them) or at least trying to.

I see it like swimming. In swimming you can swim uphill or downhill. You swim downhill by reducing drag and by getting your body flat and as far out of the water as you can, when you swim uphill, you swing your arms in a windmill fashion and tiptoe along the floor (not doing it the way the water requires), I try to make my plans downhill rather than clawing for the top I just start where I wanna be and try to be delicate and reduce the drag so I can slipstream through the water.

Formulating a consistent process, to me has been more important than a powergrab for the next steps. I try to train, and drill and reevaluate, because almost certainly my assumptions are wrong and causing me excess drag and must be corrected so that I am not splashing around.
Be graceful, perceptive, clear headed and bring up actionable intelligence..

 

[MyDuckets]

Here is where you can find an offer: http://www.offervault.com/?sort=payout&order=desc

Are you advocating affiliate marketing for other offers?

Or using these as ideas of what types of offers/products that you can re-create/improve?

For example,
1. you find that mothers have a need for reducing stretch marks
2. you find an "offer" on offervault (or clickbank, etc) of "5 natrual ways to get rid of stretch marks for only $47"
3. you find multiple offers and then do the ad+copy+landing page testing to determine the winner

At first I thought this sounded like you were advocating for AM, but it sounds like it's more than that.

Assuming you are NOT just running traffic to existing offers and getting paid as an affiliate (and as such are going to create a similar/new/better "offer" that meets the same need as existing offers), are you just making up that you have said product or offer and trying to get dry-conversions?

Or is this just affiliate marketing?

 

[Silverhawk851]

Or is this just affiliate marketing?

This is a great topic when you apply the Fastlane ideology to it. There are a multiple number of ways you can go in Media-buying.

Media-buyers are always in high demand, you can build a company up to where both Networks and publishers (companies with products) are chasing you, since you can drive traffic at any time. This gives you leverage and control, the main thing that 'average' affiliates lack. No one affiliate offer being cut makes a diff to you. You've SCALED.

The ideal option is to create your product service, offer it to affiliates and have complete control and leverage, but to be able to drive traffic and media-buy to your own offer, you'll need experience doing it for others.


'Affiliate marketing' has become such a dirty word due to run-by-night people trying to scam and molest the profession. This is another approach to the entire deal.

My post was just to intro people who have been learning copywriting to a route where they can apply it. Most people think Direct Mail is the only option and it can be costly.

Being able to drive huge traffic and convert is a skill that will make sure you never go a day hungry in your life.

For example,
1. you find that mothers have a need for reducing stretch marks
2. you find an "offer" on offervault (or clickbank, etc) of "5 natrual ways to get rid of stretch marks for only $47"
3. you find multiple offers and then do the ad+copy+landing page testing to determine the winner

Yep. As long as you can find a need for people and fill it better than the other guy, and have them convinced them you've filled it better your making sales.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Silverhawk851]

Consolodation business ideas tend to have that kind of issue (and I'm consolodating because I want large scale)

Fair enough, if more people want it consolidated, then consolidation is the way to go

I have to have good relationships with them to leverage different deals than they offer usually(don't wanna get squeezed into a box)

But as affiliates, don't you think they'll do whatever they need to to drive sales, and be turned off by a publisher telling them how to advertise? I'd assume especially the bigger ones would steer away from that, or begin to cloak their offers.

If someone is looking for a boxing mit, chances are, they might be delaying on buying it because they can't be bothered looking it up on ebay or are worried that it might be too pricey in the store they usually go to, so the advantage in this scenario is that if someone comes to a fitness related area of the web, they probably have that mit in mind. So from there it is a sales by correspondance kind of thing with customers.

That's the truth right there. Sales is leading people to a decision. To lead, you must first align, and know what they are thinking/feeling.
My question to you is, how do you get that kind of deep insight into the mind of the consumer over the internet without spending the net worth of Zimbabwe Lol

I recently was contracted by a company that's been using eye-tracking software, that generates statistics for advertisements based on your eye-movement, mouse movement, time-spent looking at a particular area on the screen,etc.

Could be the future in the making

 

[RogueInnovation]

My question to you is, how do you get that kind of deep insight into the mind of the consumer over the internet without spending the net worth of Zimbabwe Lol

Well, you can look at a lot of data and see nothing, or you can look at a few tiny points and see everything. For me it takes time, but I generally ask "do I really need more info or am I just using it to hide the fact that I don't wanna know". Data doesn't help you read between the lines, it can actually hinder you sometimes and make you focus on the wrong things.

Lets take the boxing mit, I've been to gyms thousands of times, so is it really necessary that I get a focus group together to jog my memory? No, not really because I will end up making the decision anywas so I just have to ask "will my info be accurate to that level, no bs?" and then make sure I'm not BSing myself. I structure out five questions I might give to customers, and then do the arithmetic to remember the results, then I might go chat with someone to proof check. Then after I've done that I just make sure that the angles I'm representing is a fair representation of a larger market, and note any crucial differences between what I noted down and what other people see.

I just make sure to double check it, I mean, people are not stupid, they are just often dishonest with themselves when they have to do crucial work and try to pass the buck and get others to do it. I think part of biz is not passing the buck and to trust your own sense of things also (not too much, but enough that you are not solely reliant on focus groups or beta tests for every change or idea).

I actually kinda put my foot down on specific points "no man, you know this answer, show me" then write it out.
It just takes some elbow grease and you have to know what info you are looking for. The more you know what you are looking for the less you need people to babble on, their use only goes so far anyways, and you have to ask them the right questions to get what you want, and half the time once you know the question the answer is evident anyways.

Plus there is this kind of feel you can eventually develop where you "feel the need" of other people. I can't quite explain it but you keep taking things a step deeper because you already know what they are going to say, and then you empathise with them. "yes its hard to find the motivation, and when you try to go out you need to do all kinds of things, and then you have to be social enough to be seen in that place, then you'll be faced with all these other choices or the choice to shut them out, and then you think 'is it the right time?' and I can see how it gets overwhelming so you just shut it out, hence no boxing mit for when you work out", then from there I think "damn, you know, I wish there was a way I could just give you one, I know a good one, do you have twenty bucks or what is the issue? I can get it, but do you need anything else, as these things sometimes are linked to other purchases... No you are fine as you are? Ok, cool".
So part of it is just using your ability to read body language or signals people give you so you are sure of what they want.

I also try to spend time "slowing down" my purchase behaviours and thoughts I had about problems in the past. I'll sit down and think back to before I had something and I'll remember it in detail, and run it over and over again and ask some questions. Then I'll all of a sudden know what is going on "oh so boxing mits were something I never purchased before and it is the anxiety of doing something new that is making me not buy", and I'll say "the strategy now has to remove the anxiety involved with buying niche equipment".

It isn't like your brain is incapable, you just have to get immersed in the experience of needing the product and go beyond sympathy into empathy and read between the lines.
After you read between the lines, the data becomes more useful because you'll know what a certain "look" is etc when a customer gives you it.

I don't think you need to get the theory of everything for each product, I just think you need to identify the specific trigger and what is causing them to resist then set them straight.

 

[Silverhawk851]

Plus there is this kind of feel you can eventually develop where you "feel the need" of other people. I can't quite explain it but you keep taking things a step deeper because you already know what they are going to say, and then you empathise with them

Well said, completely agree on this one. I spent 2 years as a Door-to-door salesman, and the number 1 fastest way to sell anyone is to understand that everyone lives in a different world. No two people have the same reality. You have to suspend your own reality, and understand peoples reality, their beliefs, structure of the world. What they see, hear, how they process it. Step into their shoes. See them from THEIR own perspective, who they believe they are.

That is empathy. And once you gain that empathy, everything becomes apparent. The triggers, pains, pleasures, needs, wants, how to tip the scales towards a product.

Tough to verbalize, but it's a feeling in your gut.

Thing is, I'm used to doing that in person, reading the body language, voice tonality, the 'energy', but it can be a little misleading over the internet.
Guess you just have to become experience being a customer first, then a producer.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[RogueInnovation]

don't you think they'll do whatever they need to to drive sales

In an ideal world, but people need human contact to really get their motors running and I actually hate just giving people work unless they are STUNNINGLY professional (and if they are, I expect them to ask me for what I am looking for). I am very wary of people just marking me as another notch on their belt or stacking me on a shelf.

and be turned off by a publisher telling them how to advertise? I'd assume especially the bigger ones would steer away from that, or begin to cloak their offers

Obviously depends on who you are talking to and why, but for me I never "act scared" of someone I'm going into biz with on any level, that goes double if they are "big". Big guys might hate mosquitos, but being a mosquito that makes no noise doesn't mean they won't crush you just the same, so I believe in confidence and actually go much further and believe in knowing what it is like to be behind the counter of their business (hence why I try to build up some rapport).

if more people want it consolidated, then consolidation is the way to go

Oh they definately do, the trick is though, when people want consolidation its also tricky because you have to get to the point where people say "yes thats it!! You explained it for me, thats what I wanted", so it takes quite a bit.

Thing is, I'm used to doing that in person, reading the body language, voice tonality, the 'energy', but it can be a little misleading over the internet.
Guess you just have to become experience being a customer first, then a producer.

The tonality can be imagined, its rare that you've never actually experienced how people respond, you just need to remember it and give a d#mn about it (usually I just skipped past it assuming that having the potential to know magically would become knowledge without prying it out of my brain). Thats why I say I sit, because I realise the importance of extracting the details in a slower and more deliberate manner.

Being in person is not the most important thing anyways, often times we say things like "when the time comes I'll know what to say" and we show up and then are like "damn, I should have prepared something". You don't actually need proximity to a person, you just need to pace out the process "I start at A, I move through B, I turn through C, there is a fork at D, then at E I buy". It is like a quarterback knowing his plays, and then in a game he can switch the plays instead of saying "guys run and get open however you can", because if he does that he can't organise himself properly and will miss the windows that open up cuz he can't watch everything at all times.

Its a feeling in your gut

Yup, you get it. You need to get your knee jumping, or hand tapping, or whatever, and look through the process. Then you access that gut instinct.

 

[karmazon]

I could use a bit of clarification on something. Let's say I go on http://www.babycenter.ca/ and find a need they have and do all the steps. How do I put the offer on that website? I feel like if I were to contact them directly asking to put my ad on their website it would cost more than the "hundred bucks" mentioned.

 

[Silverhawk851]

I could use a bit of clarification on something. Let's say I go on http://www.babycenter.ca/ and find a need they have and do all the steps. How do I put the offer on that website? I feel like if I were to contact them directly asking to put my ad on their website it would cost more than the "hundred bucks" mentioned.

See that list I provided? Well if you go there, you'll some Ad Networks. An ad network basically puts together thousands of websites where you can place your ads.

On these networks, you create what you call a campaign, where you can spend 5$ a day to $5,000,000 a day.


That is what I meant, you only need to spend a few hundred to figure out what combination of ads, landing pages, copy works and generates a profit , I.e to the point where for every $1 your generating lets say $1.20.

Now you have a formula that works.

Now you pump the max amount of money into buying more ads, and SCALE!

After a few weeks, when the ads are burning out or competition now found out your formula and your profits start to dwindle, you step out and find a new campaign.

Do some more reading, all your answers will appear.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[karmazon]

Thank you for your reply Silverhawk. I've been doing reading, and as a matter of fact I'm watching a 2 hour long webinar on this subject right now. However, I haven't seen anyone address this point, perhaps it's obvious, perhaps it's a very newbie questions, but if I didn't ask I felt like I was going to be a fool forever.

I have seen the list and visited some of the pages. I haven't seen this point addressed there, but maybe I didn't look deep enough. If I was to buy ads on that website, could I target websites only for pregnant women?

I don't know if that's a silly question. I've personally seen weight-loss ads on motorcycle websites and motorcycle ads on weight-loss websites, so to me it seems like some ad networks just spray their ads wherever they can.

Thank you for your patience with me and the information you already provided.

 

[Silverhawk851]

If I was to buy ads on that website, could I target websites only for pregnant women?

Yeah, just join one and check it out.
I think you need a strong base to work off, you should check out Traffic Blackbook 2.0. Fantastic resource

 

[karmazon]

Yeah, just join one and check it out.
I think you need a strong base to work off, you should check out Traffic Blackbook 2.0. Fantastic resource

Thank you. As for traffic blackbook I actually got it today.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[JSheppard]

@RogueInnovation

Know we haven't met, but I'm just getting started in this whole entrepreneurship business. Hope I can maybe help out with this though

I had an idea (embarrassingly enough from watching Boiler Room...) about your premium service. I thought something that would be super cheap, but very effective as a sales funnel (am I using that right?).

With premium customers: have a call center reach out to them, super low key: Hello John Doe, I'm xyz with ABC, how's it going today? Good this weather... Well I wanted to get in touch, I'm an junior account executive and we heard you might be interested in one of our services and wanted to reach out, we've got a real quick 3 question survey that we've seen really help as far as which one of our account mangers works best with your situation."

Make up some 3 question survey that would give you some more info about the client, and gets buy-in from the receptionist. I'd make them things like revenue, expansion in the next 2 years, and find three of the largest problems and offer 'which one of these sounds like it's something you're interested in discussing?"

No matter what happens, you've got a datasheet on your hottest leads and the person who answers their phone is interested in speaking to you next time.. Best case, you're brought in to give a pitch.

My two cents.

 

[StartupsRFun]

Sorry if this comes out as a newbie question, but been learning a lot about media buying lately and also the products in which people promote. It seems everyone knocks the affiliate route and says to create your own product. This makes sense to me, as the barrier to entry seems so low, that campaigns can be easily duplicated, which sounds like you can have awesome copy and someone can just steal it. My question is has anyone had success selling products directly for small companies, that maybe arent online? Im thinking of doing some investigating in my city to see if there are companies creating products in demand and approaching them about allowing me to sell them online. This is the approach I see as most viable, and just wondered if anyone else had any experience with this.