From generating ideas to selling results

[Sovereign]

Hi,


Let me start by saying i really liked TMF , which is the reason why i’m here. So, if you find in my writing (this or any later posts) anything which is in disagreement with the book, know i meant no disrespect, i am merely posing questions/my thoughts to come at a better understanding of the subject.


The following is a combination of what i know (or think i know) so far, and what i am wondering about as i failed to find a good answer elsewhere.

I’m not sure this is appropriate as my first post, but i have to start somewhere.


Those who are wondering about the same questions, please jump in with your own thoughts and we can learn together. And those who have already passed these processes please share your knowledge and experience.
________________________________________________________________________________________


A lot has been written about ‘’getting’’ ideas, but many more questions have been posed than have been answered.

Ok, on this forum and in THE book ideas are regarded as events, but are they really?

I understand that ideas can simply occur to you spontaneously, but this is a result of a subconscious process, which must first be programmed into your brain.

Also there is a second option - to actively seek out ideas. There is a variety of processes for this, but invariably they all involve asking more or less stupid questions, like:

• can i make this cheaper?
• can i make this more esthetic?
• can i make it ‘’eco’’?
• can i boost performance?
• can i make it easier to use?
• can i make/sell it as ‘’cool’’?
• if i join product 1 with product 2, can i sell it?
• can i market this product better than the competition?

Most of these are not stupid questions by themselves, but since we usually don’t know much about the subject of the idea (at the time we get the idea), we cannot give good and reliable answers, thus we cannot expect that many of our ideas will be worth anything (when brought into reality).

My point here is that you get an idea, and then put in days of work, till you finally realize that it’s not viable, or too expensive, or would take 15 years of development, etc.

So, Question 1: how can we increase the productivity of our idea generation (how to increase the ratio between good ideas and pointless ideas)?

One method is for us to stick only to subjects/niches we are ideally suited for, but this constraints and limits us severely, also it eliminates cross-correlation of different fields. Are there any better ‘’filtering mechanisms (processes)’’?



On the same note of ideas, when you have a rough estimate of a price and performance (if applicable) of your product, how do you estimate the market size?

I understand this is best done through putting a mock up (early prototype) on the market, but is there a good verification process you can do prior to this phase?

- Question 2: what are good (reliable) methods of estimating market size?​

By reliable i mean in the range of +- 50%, and by market size i mean people who would actually buy it, and not all people who could use it (i hear people say that the market size is equal to the number of people who can afford the product, but this is just not a realistic estimation).



Things are relatively simple if your idea is a product similar to already existing products that are relatively established on the market, but what about if you are releasing a new or previously fringe product/service? How can you predict the sucessfulness of such a product?

- Question 3: How to predict people's reception of a new (or previously fringe) product? And can we control their response?​

Let’s take Red Bull as an example. Energy drinks existed long before Red Bull, but they were far from popular. Public opinion about energy drinks was far from good, but then Red Bull completely changed this in a few years. Now energy drinks are a big industry, yet Red Bull (in spite of high prices) still dominates the market.

Is this solely the effect of a great marketing campaign? Or was there something more?

And why do they remain on top, even though other companies have equal (even exactly same) products at lower prices?
I bet there is a lot for us to learn from this.



Now i will skip a few chapters and a few years of development and testing, and go straight to selling.

After you turn your idea into a working design and create a physical prototype or conduct physical tests, it’s time to cash in.

I see 2 options (please tell me if you know of any more):

• Sell the working idea (preferably for some immediate money + royalties)
• Open a company and start selling your product

I understand option 2, a lot has already been written on it and i don’t think (at present) that anything has to be added.

Option 1, on the other hand, is quite underrepresented in on-line texts (i don’t know about books though). Granted, it brings in less money than if you sell your own product by yourself, but it also requires less starting capital and a lower total time investment. However for a certain period you are sort of an employe of your buyer.

Nevertheless this is an interesting and potentially very useful option. It is neatly discused here: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061011055155AA7xHm2

But what remains untold here, is how you approach the potential buyer. I suppose it is the same as approaching VCs, but how do you approach a VC? A lot has been written on meetings and interviews with WCs (also recently on this forum https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/trying-to-post-useful-general-purpose-stuff-for-fellow-fastlaners.61094), but you must first get to that point. Hence question 4:

- Question 4: how to conduct your first approach to a potential buyer of your idea, or a VC?​

This is the question that i am really the most interested in. I can find or make a method for everything else, but i am lost on this one.

My mode of thinking of this is that i have to sell what i’ve got, but on the other hand you don’t want to sound too much like a car salesman, especially if the product is technical (every physical product is, and websites are too), as that can be a red flag.

It’s the very first minute of conversation, or text in the e-mail, that i wonder about. It’s that ‘Hi, i am name_string, and i made prototype_description. Would you listen to my pitch?’ seems unlikely to get a positive reply. Something about how they benefit should be put in.
Am i wrong on this?

Would learning copywriting help in such pitches? Or would it hurt it (investors are not general public, thus i presume they might be turned off by ‘’salles’’ approach)?



I understand there is no one size fits all with any of this, but anything that you can share fills a piece of the puzzle.


Thank you

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kevin D. Smith]

Wow that's a lot for one post, here's my $0.02:

Question 1: how can we increase the productivity of our idea generation (how to increase the ratio between good ideas and pointless ideas)?

IMO, the way you increase productivity in idea generation is to run with an idea. Pick one, make mistakes and fail hard. The only way you're going to refine your process is by doing. There's no magical formula to idea generation, it's using your experience and the experience of others to tell you whether or not an idea will fail. Use MJ's formula, is there a need? No? Move on. The more you put ideas into action the more feedback you get. That's your process.

Question 4: how to conduct your first approach to a potential buyer of your idea, or a VC?

I believe it was in Seth Godin's book The Icarus Deception, Seth outlines that if you have a business idea but you need millions to start, it's not a good idea. I think that's a great perspective to start with. Even in TMF MJ outlines that you should produce before you make your pitch. Have your product be your pitch. If you have a track record of selling 1000 units of whatever first then you're way more likely to get some one interested.

Maybe I'm reading between the lines too much but I feel like you're trying to make your idea safe. If you currently have an idea and you're afraid to move forward you need to step up to the plate. You can model and predict as much as you want but there are countless ideas that every marketing expert and business analyst thought would fail. Quit thinking so much, take a risk.

 

[Tyler Ellison]

Hi,
Question 1: how can we increase the productivity of our idea generation (how to increase the ratio between good ideas and pointless ideas)?
Question 2: what are good (reliable) methods of estimating market size?
Question 3: How to predict people's reception of a new (or previously fringe) product? And can we control their response?
Question 4: how to conduct your first approach to a potential buyer of your idea, or a VC?

Would learning copywriting help in such pitches? Or would it hurt it (investors are not general public, thus i presume they might be turned off by ‘’salles’’ approach)?

That was a monster post and a lot to digest, but I've narrowed down the questions to these and I'll answer best I know.

1) The only way to really know if an idea is good is to test it. The internet is great because we get faster feedback than from anywhere else. What you can do is setup a simple landing page that offers what you're thinking of selling, then have people optin to a waiting list. This will tell you if there are people interested enough to take at least the action of getting on a list to get it. If response is poor, that will usually indicate something not worth pursuing and you can discard it.

2) You want to look at the size of lists of people who have bought in that market. For this, Nextmark is your friend: http://lists.nextmark.com/ - Search on what you want to offer and Nextmark will show lists of people. It includes buyers lists of specific products and how big they are. You can see the potential of a buyers market size for free this way within minutes.

3) Anybody who says they can predict people's reception of a new product is a liar. You can NEVER really know without testing. Large companies try to predict with sampling and controlled tests but the only real way to know is to actually take action on it. You can try to survey your potential market asking how they'd receive it but that data won't tell you how many people would actually take action. I'd refer you to answer #1 - you have to actually test the market's response.

4) Buy and read the book "Pitch Anything" written to address specifically what you're trying to do here. It teaches great salesmanship, which is essential to good business anyway.

Last question about copywriting - If you start to learn copywriting what you'll find is that it's just salesmanship in writing. If you're a good salesperson, the person you're selling to won't even feel like they're being sold to. So learning good salesmanship and good copywriting can only ever help you. If you learn BAD salesmanship and copywriting, then it doesn't matter what you try to promote, it'll fail. So learn GOOD salesmanship and you can pitch anything to anybody without anybody taking offense or feeling 'sold' to.

 

[damondietz]

You are focused way to much on the "idea" and not enough on the "action."

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Sovereign]

Thank you for the replies, this gave me an idea, actually an outline for a learning process – a test product to learn on (I would be making it for myself anyway, as I need it for the development of my main idea, but now I’ll also try to sell it, to get the hang of the methods and the process itself).


@Kevin D. Smith and @damondietz yes i do get hung up on ideas, because my ideas tend to be very time and finance intensive. Thus filtering out weeds as early as possible is very beneficial.

Action has several stages, the first one is to design, the second to test, the third to manufacture and the last to sell. I am currently stuck at the testing stage (manufacturing stage can actually be bypassed), hence all my questions as I must review what I have done so far, where this is going and if I should start from the beginning.

I am an engineer and in my field simply taking a risk is generally not a good practice, thus before I do anything I cover all aspects of it.
I do agree that sometimes wasting time with assessing the situation is hindering progress, but it’s necessary to determine whether the risk is a stupid blind risk, or a calculated risk.
Of course determining the line between one and the other is subject to the individuals philosophical viewpoints; but I think I’m getting a bit too philosophical here.


@Tyler Ellison I got the book and will start reading it now. I think it's exactly what I’ve been looking for.

I heard about landing pages before, but never gave it a serious thought, but if I think about it now, it’s actually a simple method.
I suppose the same page could later be upgraded to serve for advertising and marketing purposes?

Salesmanship is exactly what I came here to learn, I just didn’t know what it’s called (the skill of selling) and that pitching is an integral part of it (I thought of it as a separate skill).
I see so many ways now that I can practice it, this is definitely the next step for me.


Thank you all


p.s.: I apologize for the wall of text in the O.P. and again here, perhaps I was a bit overexplanatory.