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First step to inventing?

ChrisKyle

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Hi there,

I'm a bit new here. You can find my introduction thread here if you have any questions of prior business ventures: https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...ing-entrepreneur-ready-to-go-fast-lane.58402/

First of all, the book has given me a completely different outlook on life and has motivated me to come up with many new ideas and solve others needs. I had a few questions in regards to inventing. I have an idea which I think could be very beneficial to many and help solve a common problem people have. The prototype seems something that would be difficult to design and I'm not sure exactly how it would work. I know how I want it to work and I have several ideas in regards to functionality. What would be the first step in figuring out if this is even possible to create? The idea is based off an existing product that I feel I could improve. Do I hire an engineer? Try to draw how i want it to look? Im new to this like I said but just looking for some general advice. I believe this product could be really helpful to others if I figured out the functionality of it. When I ask myself if I would use it, the answer would be yes, every time.

Thanks and look forward to hearing any thoughts or opinions on my situation,

Chris Kyle
 
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Ninjakid

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Buddy Guy Eh
Chris Kyle?? I assume you're an admirer?

The process of inventing is different for every human being to ever exist.

Nikolai Tesla for example created a machine completely in his mind before he ever got to building it in real life.

I'd say do what works for you.
 

ChrisKyle

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Chris Kyle?? I assume you're an admirer?

The process of inventing is different for every human being to ever exist.

Nikolai Tesla for example created a machine completely in his mind before he ever got to building it in real life.

I'd say do what works for you.
Wish I was kidding, but thats my name. And I understand. Im just trying to understand the process of going from idea->Prototype->Product
 

Ninjakid

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Wish I was kidding, but thats my name.

Wow, what are the odds eh?

And I understand. Im just trying to understand the process of going from idea->Prototype->Product

Well, I'll give you an example.

When I write a computer program, I think about what I want the end result to be and ultimately what I want to accomplish. And then I create an algorithm to accomplish this. This sounds very simplified, but when creating an algorithm, there are many variables because I have to think of EVERYTHING I want the program to do and that has to be included in the code. The next step is getting to work and actually coding.

There's not really a universal step by step process to inventing something, because creativity is unique to each person. But I have a suggestion: study computer science and algorithm design. Even if you have nothing to do with computers, these fields will help you find systematic solutions for problems, and will definitely aid you problem-solving abilites.
 
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FTLane

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Well if you're serious about this and you want the ability to sort of talk about your idea without it getting stolen you could file a provisional patent. Without knowing what you want to make it's hard to give solid advice but if you believe in your inventions potential then file the provisional patent then come back for some better advice.
 

ChrisKyle

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Well if you're serious about this and you want the ability to sort of talk about your idea without it getting stolen you could file a provisional patent. Without knowing what you want to make it's hard to give solid advice but if you believe in your inventions potential then file the provisional patent then come back for some better advice.
Thank you. How can I go about checking to see if my idea has already been patented or not?
 

ChrisKyle

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Wow, what are the odds eh?



Well, I'll give you an example.

When I write a computer program, I think about what I want the end result to be and ultimately what I want to accomplish. And then I create an algorithm to accomplish this. This sounds very simplified, but when creating an algorithm, there are many variables because I have to think of EVERYTHING I want the program to do and that has to be included in the code. The next step is getting to work and actually coding.

There's not really a universal step by step process to inventing something, because creativity is unique to each person. But I have a suggestion: study computer science and algorithm design. Even if you have nothing to do with computers, these fields will help you find systematic solutions for problems, and will definitely aid you problem-solving abilites.
Yes, that does make more sense now. Thank you for your insight.
 
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RogueInnovation

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well...

Market size
Distribution options
Difficulty/Ease of marketting
Cost of manufacturing

I stay away from, molds and patent stuff, because people get ripped off all the time, its best to find nearly complete solutions and bring them together rather than pioneer a high risk venture with an obscure and cost heavy product alteration.

I mean, it all comes down to common sense,
Are there routes to market? How big is the market? Is it easy to make? Is it low cost and high margin?

Only after answering those do you ask "is it a good product".
Cuz if its expensive, with a small market, and high outlay costs then f#ck that.

Cheap, nice big healthy market, low outlay, easy to market and make sales.
Thats what you want.


What you don't want, is to just invent sh#t for the sake of it. Most people's inventions are the stupidest things ever, and they get all protective of it, don't be that guy. If the invention is cr#p don't waste your time.

Ideally, you want something that is in a goldie locks zone of "competitors exist to model our business off of, but it is not oversaturated to the point your margins will get squeezed".
Too many people look to be revolutionary, when in reality, you just need to be actually helpful in a space that isn't oversaturated (makes your cash have less value, squeezes down your margins).
 

Wal-Mart Vendor

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See how close you can get to a working prototype first. Most of the time this will take a new mold and that's super expensive. 3D renderings can help also some manufactures can make a working prototype without a mold and will make a few at a higher price. A client of mine right now has a type of clip and we found a manufacture who was willing to machine it himself to get a few samples out for her.

If it is different then the other product you might have a chance of a patent. I am personally not real fan of patents (mine got me nothing). What got me to market was proof they would sell. It's a hard road and you have to do your homework. Just watch out in this "Invention world" as I am sure you know there are a lot of snakes waiting to tell you they can market your product and make you a millionaire! Fact is 90% of new products fail in the market. Then you have to worry your product is a 1 sku wonder. Most retailers do not want a orphan product. Do as much of everything you can yourself. Good Luck!
 
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Journey2Million$

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I'd read a book about patents and a book for inventors. There's a design engineer here you can hire in exchange for part ownership of the product. Then use kickstarter to finance it and find a manufacturer to mass produce it. Then sell it on ebay or amazon.


If I were going to invent something I would invent something really simple but fun & catchy, like those rubber bands shaped like animals. Those were a huge fad. I wouldn't go for something complicated unless you already have deep pockets. The more complex something is, it probably takes longer and more things can go wrong, and more chance of running out of money before it's gone to market & made a profit.
 
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PEBBLE

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I am just a stage above you, check my journal out

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...duct-perfection-my-journal.55732/#post-406642

I just found an engineer after a BAD experience with a different engineer, feel free to discuss things with me, would be good to not be so alone on this journey of ours?

We can sign a NDA for each other and bounce ideas of each other. I got a really good idea at the moment,

Regarding patents, my idea is a little complex and would cost a fortune. But my engineer says my product idea is way advanced than the competitors, that my brand will be all that I need to secure myself.
 
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Vigilante

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I would pick up the book One Simple Idea by Stephen Keys. It might not be exactly what you were looking for, but it at least will get you moving in the right direction.
 
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jlwilliams

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I have a couple of patents. One made good money, others made some, others got ripped off before hitting the market, all were worth while. In my case, I made prototypes and worked out the bugs to create a product that the manufacturer could build and sell. There is no one way to go, but in my limited experience having a patent is only so valuable, where having a working product is killer. An idea has to be "reduced to practice", and it's hard to do that without making a physical object. I don't know what it is you are working on, but if it is an improvement on something that is already out there, I'd start by getting one of those and re configuring it to embody your idea. The classic hypothetical example is the wheel. Say the wheel is the hot new invention; then you invent tires. You get a wheel, and wrap it with rubber. Next caveman gets this bright idea to invent treads, so he buys one of your rubber coated wheels and he cuts treads into it. Don't re-invent the wheel, get a wheel and modify it.

You can find tutorials on nearly every process. If you don't know how to fabricate your idea, break it down into increments and figure out piece by piece how to cut, glue, bend and manipulate raw materials into some semblance of your invention. If it should be made out of titanium, and you can't work titanium, make a representation out of PVC. Make a "mock up" before you consider paying dear currency to an engineer.

This is important. You need to research the companies who make the products that your idea improves on. Those companies are your target customers. You want to figure out which one of them is going to buy your patent. Target research is one of your new hobbies.
 

ChrisKyle

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I have a couple of patents. One made good money, others made some, others got ripped off before hitting the market, all were worth while. In my case, I made prototypes and worked out the bugs to create a product that the manufacturer could build and sell. There is no one way to go, but in my limited experience having a patent is only so valuable, where having a working product is killer. An idea has to be "reduced to practice", and it's hard to do that without making a physical object. I don't know what it is you are working on, but if it is an improvement on something that is already out there, I'd start by getting one of those and re configuring it to embody your idea. The classic hypothetical example is the wheel. Say the wheel is the hot new invention; then you invent tires. You get a wheel, and wrap it with rubber. Next caveman gets this bright idea to invent treads, so he buys one of your rubber coated wheels and he cuts treads into it. Don't re-invent the wheel, get a wheel and modify it.

You can find tutorials on nearly every process. If you don't know how to fabricate your idea, break it down into increments and figure out piece by piece how to cut, glue, bend and manipulate raw materials into some semblance of your invention. If it should be made out of titanium, and you can't work titanium, make a representation out of PVC. Make a "mock up" before you consider paying dear currency to an engineer.

This is important. You need to research the companies who make the products that your idea improves on. Those companies are your target customers. You want to figure out which one of them is going to buy your patent. Target research is one of your new hobbies.
Very helpful, thank you very much for you time!
 
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ChrisKyle

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I am just a stage above you, check my journal out

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...duct-perfection-my-journal.55732/#post-406642

I just found an engineer after a BAD experience with a different engineer, feel free to discuss things with me, would be good to not be so alone on this journey of ours?

We can sign a NDA for each other and bounce ideas of each other. I got a really good idea at the moment,

Regarding patents, my idea is a little complex and would cost a fortune. But my engineer says my product idea is way advanced than the competitors, that my brand will be all that I need to secure myself.
Pm'd. Would love to talk further
I am just a stage above you, check my journal out

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...duct-perfection-my-journal.55732/#post-406642

I just found an engineer after a BAD experience with a different engineer, feel free to discuss things with me, would be good to not be so alone on this journey of ours?

We can sign a NDA for each other and bounce ideas of each other. I got a really good idea at the moment,

Regarding patents, my idea is a little complex and would cost a fortune. But my engineer says my product idea is way advanced than the competitors, that my brand will be all that I need to secure myself.
Pm'd. Would love to talk further
 
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Ronnie Bryan

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I have no idea, how old this thread is, for some reason windows 8.1 likes to reboot the forums every time I close the ads, However, this is the road I am on present day, I am working with Davison aka INVENT HELP on an prototype for something that could help in dish washing in Public Restaurants I didn't even have an idea, or name of an product, I seen an problem something that was unsafe and happening in several companies.Because, Federal Law Prohibits I can not go into details, but hope this information can give anyone wanting to invent a carrot.
 
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jlwilliams

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Informative thread , Thanks for sharing .
But how to identify my idea is existed somewhere or not and How should I identify it whether it is patent or not?


You start by looking around in the industry your invention is in. Start with the power of Google. If you find it for sale, it's been done. If you don't find it, that doesn't mean it hasn't ever been done, but it's promising. Your next step is searching the PTO's massive database of patents. That is a long, tedious and daunting task; but you can do it. It's all public information and free for the taking. Try different search terms, so on.

Be forewarned, reading patents makes your brain ache. It's a task, but it's a task you must do. If your googling, scouring trade publications and sites and your informal patent search don't turn up a precedent, then you may want to hire a professional to search it again. It's worth it and in fact vital that you do your own search first because you need to know the ropes, but if you do go as far as filing a patent it will get searched and re searched during the patent process, so paying for one early in the game may save you some challenges down the road. Anyway, that is getting ahead of myself. When you search (and when an attorney's staff searches, and when the PTO's examiner searches) you will find 'challenges' which are basically patents that in some way predict your invention or portions of it. What you need to do is exercise the muscle that writes responses explaining why this or that is not a precedent, or in worse cases re writing your claims to get around it. There are literally millions of patents and patent searches are a recurring part within the process. You will have your patent where you want it, and the examiner (who may or may not even understand your application or the patents they see as "challenges", but you still have to deal with them) will throw this that and the other out as challenges. They ill issue "final" judgments that your case is "obvious" in the light of blah blah; and you will calmly explain why it isn't. "Final actions" on the part of the PTO aren't really final. The whole thing is a mind boggling web laid by generations of lawyers. The terminology alone is staggering. Words like "final" and "obvious" are just two examples of words that mean something other in legalize than what they mean in English. The rules and sub rules are labyrinthine. Still, you can get a patent and go to market with it. Many people do. You can be one of them. Just dig in and run with it and hire legal advice when you get to the point where you need it.

That brings me to the whole patent writing process. They follow a set format. You'll get the hang of it when you start reading patents. You need to at least rough draft your patent application (which you send to a patent lawyer to get fine tuned because there is a whole language of legalese that is patent specific. This IS NOT the place to "legal zoom" a document) You need to write it the first time yourself because you know your invention best and you need to be able to at least get the hang of the way a patent document works because you will be re writing stuff as you go. You have to balance between specificity and a broad net. It's a tricky balance because you obviously can't claim The Universe, but you want to claim as much of it as you can. You want to write your patent so it isn't too easy to work around, but it has to be finite by it's very nature. It's a hell of a trick.
 
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TedM

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That brings me to the whole patent writing process.
You should write your own PPA, and use the year you get to determine the marketability/feasibility and figure out how to proceed: to make or to license. If, at the end of 12 months, you haven't commercialized it - drop it.

If it's worthwhile, get a real patent attorney to write it for you. Don't attempt to do your own.
 

Ronnie Bryan

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I am basically, Hiring Davison, to handle writing the patent and their laboratory to build it. I also have hired an retainer for legal representation.Most of the process is done for me,I am sure, I will still have problems along the way,
 

TedM

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I am basically, Hiring Davison, to handle writing the patent and their laboratory to build it.
How much are you spending?
How certain are you that there is a market for your product?

Just my 2cents, but I wouldn't (and do not) go about it this way. I invest a couple hundred $$ in great renderings and then shop them around to potential clients, to see if there is demand. This way, I have gotten to the level of initial interest from one small, one big, and one HUGE company and NOW I'm working on making a working model.
 
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Ronnie Bryan

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How much are you spending?
How certain are you that there is a market for your product?

Spending $745 this includes cost of an retainer, I already signed an contract that states I won't talk about my invention, but I can share the problem it is trying to solve. In commercial restaurants they use steel wool to wash pans, homes use sos pads, these get old and fall apart and sometimes fragments end up in cooked food. Not to mention, the mess left behind, really, tough, stuck on, messes like burnt and black Teriyaki on an glass casserole dish usually, means throwing the dish out. were looking into an invention that solves ALL these problems:

* No fragments in food.
* No irritating mess.
* Safe to use Commercially and in Homes.
* Can cut through any stain and help dishes last longer.
 
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Ronnie Bryan

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Although, I like what you are telling me TedM ,Thank You, I am new to all of this, just testing waters.I am Confident {invent help} Davison, are dependable people having been inventors' for 25 years they appear credible in Google search and if you wouldn't care I might pass this along to Susan Chapell, Director of new products.

We are still in preliminary phase, we both believe there is an very good market for this, if these problems have been solved at least that information will be uncovered and we can do our part so when people eat out they don't have to worry about swallowing something they shouldn't by sharing it with Restaurants or Home owners who don't know.
 
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Ronnie Bryan

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Thinking oh wow, I now opened an door for Competition, someone on this forum will try and beat me to the punch so to speak,oh well, there were other Hamburger Places, when Dave Thomas, opened Wendy's.
 
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TedM

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good luck. let us know how it turns out.
 

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