Lex DeVille's: How to Make $1,000 a Week with no Degree, no Feedback, & no Portfolio.

[JaxAttacks]

Here is a copy of 99% of @SinisterLex's posts in this thread. Enjoy!

 

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[TeflonDon]

Here is a copy of 99% of @SinisterLex's posts in this thread. Enjoy!

Thanks!

 

[TunmiseA]

Very enlightening thread & a testament to how valuable this forum is. I read Lex's initial posts here over 3 months ago and was charged up with enthusiasm to try the whole freelancing route out. Needless to say after 10+ attempts and no replies, I began using templates as cover letters before giving up entirely.

One thing that has left a lasting mark on me though is copywriting and the whole psychology behind it. I agree with other posters' comments on not learning copy just for the sake of it, but it really is a skill that can only be beneficial to you in regards to learning how to communicate value/sell.

Will be trying the freelance thing again to build up a side income, and this time I won't give up until I get a reply.

Here's my Upwork profile intro below, any critiques are welcome!

 

[Lex DeVille]

Very enlightening thread & a testament to how valuable this forum is. I read Lex's initial posts here over 3 months ago and was charged up with enthusiasm to try the whole freelancing route out. Needless to say after 10+ attempts and no replies, I began using templates as cover letters before giving up entirely.

One thing that has left a lasting mark on me though is copywriting and the whole psychology behind it. I agree with other posters' comments on not learning copy just for the sake of it, but it really is a skill that can only be beneficial to you in regards to learning how to communicate value/sell.

Will be trying the freelance thing again to build up a side income, and this time I won't give up until I get a reply.

Here's my Upwork profile intro below, any critiques are welcome!


View attachment 11145

Honest opinion?

You lost me at "obtaining". Speak it out loud. Wayyy too many syllables.

Bio isn't long enough. Where's the bullet points for people who don't have time to read?

Where's the proof of what you can do? Where's a link to your samples?

What kind of copy do you specialize in and for what market?

Attacking Upwork as a "Copywriter" is a losing battle.

Why not "Legal Copywriter", "Restaurant Copywriter", "3D Printing Copywriter"?

Find a niche you write well for and specialize in that.

Should get clients soon then.

 

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[Five Star]

Here is a copy of 99% of @SinisterLex's posts in this thread. Enjoy!

This is great thanks.

@SinisterLex this summary looks like a good foundation for an ebook

 

[Lex DeVille]

This is great thanks.

@SinisterLex this summary looks like a good foundation for an ebook

lol I'm sure some lurker is way ahead of you on that one!

 

[JaxAttacks]

This is great thanks.

@SinisterLex this summary looks like a good foundation for an ebook

I thought that too. Maybe eventually Lex can have it formatted and give it away along with his course or something.

 

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[The Grind]

Lesson for everyone. If you pawn off a job to someone else like I did... check their work before you submit it.

I got a job to write a 10k word ebook.

I didn't want to do it at all, but the money was good. I gave the job to a friend. I thought she was smart. I told her what to do. She gave it to me at the last second, I quickly glanced over it, submitted it.

The guy starts completely freaking out saying I'm breaking the law, copied everything from around the internet. Which was true, my friend legit copied and pasted large parts of popular articles. Didn't think she would do that at all. Guy is trying to have me banned form upwork, thrown i jail, etc. Got a great feedback score from him, now my profile is completely trashes, not a single person will hire me now, they would be foolish to.

So, don't do that...

 

[Stardust]

now my profile is completely trashes, not a single person will hire me now, they would be foolish to.

So, don't do that...

Can you still give him a refund?

If you can, do it.

That should remove his negative feedback from your profile. Your job success score will be affected, but you can work harder to improve it.

Next time when you outsource a gig, use copyscape (or another plagiarism checker) to check if the content/copy is original.

 

[The Grind]

Can you still give him a refund?

If you can, do it.

That should remove his negative feedback from your profile. Your job success score will be affected, but you can work harder to improve it.

Next time when you outsource a gig, use copyscape (or another plagiarism checker) to check if the content/copy is original.

Good tip, I did some research on removing negative feedback, it looks like if you give a full refund the feedback gets removed, he never paid me for the job, but he did pay me a 1 dollar milestone first, the rest wasn't approved of course and he ended the contract. I refunded the dollar this morning, we'll see if it works.

I knew there was software to check for plagiarism but never looked into it, copyscape is it? I'll look into it. Thanks.

 

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[TeflonDon]

Good tip, I did some research on removing negative feedback, it looks like if you give a full refund the feedback gets removed, he never paid me for the job, but he did pay me a 1 dollar milestone first, the rest wasn't approved of course and he ended the contract. I refunded the dollar this morning, we'll see if it works.

I knew there was software to check for plagiarism but never looked into it, copyscape is it? I'll look into it. Thanks.

If you're gonna outsource, you really should at least check the work. You're freelancing, that means when you get a job your name & rep are on the line. Personally I'd avoid outsourcing just to make money on a job, though we all have our separate ways and I don't know your circumstances etc.

Just remember every job is your rep on the line, treat it that way. Removing feedback is damage limitation, I hope this doesn't actually affect you as badly as you make out though, that's a harsh price to pay.

 

[harerace]

I dropped freelancing. Although I needed the quick cash , it sucked my time like a $2 whore. I capped out at 3-4k a month and it would be damn near impossible to expect freedom while doing it. I'm surprise MJ let this thread go on for this long. Good luck to the rest of you guys.

 

[Lex DeVille]

I dropped freelancing. Although I needed the quick cash , it sucked my time like a $2 whore. I capped out at 3-4k a month and it would be damn near impossible to expect freedom while doing it. I'm surprise MJ let this thread go on for this long. Good luck to the rest of you guys.

Ah, yeah, sounds rough.

Sorry it didn't bring you 100% freedom, lambos, & pina coladas while you kick back and watch the money flow in.

I wonder why you weren't an overnight success like all the others here who made millions freelancing...

Guess you just weren't one of the lucky ones.

As for why MJ lets the thread continue...

I dunno, maybe because the thread has nearly a quarter of a million views and it's a top ranked post on Google and helps bring traffic to his forum which people then pay him money for.

Also could be because it's helped a lot of people find ways to earn income to help fuel their Fastlane pursuits.

Hard to say for sure, but I bet it's something like that.

Great job copywriting by the way. Your post struck a nerve strong enough for a response.

"expect freedom"...

lol

 

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[Fox]

I dropped freelancing. Although I needed the quick cash , it sucked my time like a $2 whore. I capped out at 3-4k a month and it would be damn near impossible to expect freedom while doing it. I'm surprise MJ let this thread go on for this long. Good luck to the rest of you guys.

OR

'Thanks SinisterLex for all the value in this thread. I got up to 4k a month which has given me some options and plenty of experience to move on to the next stage. Ultimately I found it too hard to focus on both freelancing and ______ so I had to choice one. Wish everyone else the best of luck.

My main big takeaways are

1) ____
2) ____
3) ____

Thanks again for all the for value provided.'


Not-so-subtly-pissing all over someone who has provided NUMEROUS threads, videos and PMs to lots of members isn't a great move in what is ultimately a small enough community (online business). Business, and life, is all about connections.

I am going into copywriting knowing that initially the money won't be great. I am under no illusions since there is none given in this thread. It has been mentioned many times what to expect paywise and that it takes focus and time. I think there is more here then just making X amount though and the common trend between forum members who have studied copy and then also succeeded in other areas is clear. I think you missed out on some valuable lessons by purely taking a dollar/month view of the whole experience.

 

[harerace]

I meant no offense . I dropped it because it's not for me. I've thanked @SinisterLex in the past for getting me started.

It's been a long journey and I've decided to let it go . That's all I'm saying.

 

[Fox]

I meant no offense . I dropped it because it's not for me. I've thanked @SinisterLex in the past for getting me started.

It's been a long journey and I've decided to let it go . That's all I'm saying.

Okay. It didn't read that way though.

Mind sharing how long it took to get to 3-4k? And also how consistent that was once you got to that level?

 

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[harerace]

OR

'Thanks SinisterLex for all the value in this thread. I got up to 4k a month which has given me some options and plenty of experience to move on to the next stage. Ultimately I found it too hard to focus on both freelancing and ______ so I had to choice one. Wish everyone else the best of luck.

My main big takeaways are

1) ____
2) ____
3) ____

Thanks again for all the for value provided.'


Not-so-subtly-pissing all over someone who has provided NUMEROUS threads, videos and PMs to lots of members isn't a great move in what is ultimately a small enough community (online business). Business, and life, is all about connections.

I am going into copywriting knowing that initially the money won't be great. I am under no illusions since there is none given in this thread. It has been mentioned many times what to expect paywise and that it takes focus and time. I think there is more here then just making X amount though and the common trend between forum members who have studied copy and then also succeeded in other areas is clear. I think you missed out on some valuable lessons by purely taking a dollar/month view of the whole experience.

Okay. It didn't read that way though.

Mind sharing how long it took to get to 3-4k? And also how consistent that was once you got to that level?

I'm not good with words as you can see. So instead of writing copy I did WordPress jobs. It took around 2 weeks for the money to start rolling in. It's consistent with 50+ hours a week.

I learned not to do full sites. Even though they paid around $500 they could drag on for weeks. I looked for quick fixes but I might only land those 2 or 3 times a day if I'm lucky.

 

[Fox]

Thanks Hererace. Why not specialize in only quick fixes and jobs that are under an hour?

'Quick Fix Wordpress Jobs. Any Problem Solved in Under An Hour - Immediate Response'

Max amount for minimum time while still having plenty of space for your new project(s). Either way its good to see that you were making money within two weeks.

 

[harerace]

Thanks Hererace. Why not specialize in only quick fixes and jobs that are under an hour?

'Quick Fix Wordpress Jobs. Any Problem Solved in Under An Hour - Immediate Response'

Max amount for minimum time while still having plenty of space for your new project(s). Either way its good to see that you were making money within two weeks.

Those jobs are few and far between + requires me babysitting odesk all day

 

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[Mac]

One of the problems I've encountered is getting stuck with long-term clients for content writing. I initially wanted to do some content writing to build up my feedback on Upwork, but now I'm trying to move onto Copywriting and it seems as if I'm stuck with these clients writing articles for them. I want to keep my hourly rate at $6 an hour until I land a few Copywriting jobs, then boost up my rate. Right now I could boost up my rate for content writing because I have people messaging me a lot to do jobs for them, but they're long-term. I haven't received any Copywriting jobs on Upwork yet.

Basically I'm looking for advice.
Should I boost my content writing price and apply for Copywriting jobs with that rate or should I keep my rate at $6 an hour and pursue small Copywriting jobs and build up my portfolio? I feel like I'm stuck right now.

 

[TeflonDon]

One of the problems I've encountered is getting stuck with long-term clients for content writing. I initially wanted to do some content writing to build up my feedback on Upwork, but now I'm trying to move onto Copywriting and it seems as if I'm stuck with these clients writing articles for them. I want to keep my hourly rate at $6 an hour until I land a few Copywriting jobs, then boost up my rate. Right now I could boost up my rate for content writing because I have people messaging me a lot to do jobs for them, but they're long-term. I haven't received any Copywriting jobs on Upwork yet.

Basically I'm looking for advice.
Should I boost my content writing price and apply for Copywriting jobs with that rate or should I keep my rate at $6 an hour and pursue small Copywriting jobs and build up my portfolio? I feel like I'm stuck right now.

I'm in a similar situation to you at the moment, and have similar questions. Personally I'd take any copy job, at any rate, even free, just to get experience + social proof. If I'm good enough, the paid work will come. In the meantime, I'll raise content rates slowly until my schedule isn't so cluttered.

I'm looking at it like this - the content is work, I'm doing a good job of it, and I need to get paid, so I'll take what I can. The copywriting is a goal and a skill I want to develop. I'll train it and practice on my own time whenever I can make some. I'll keep building it until I can land paid jobs with it. That's not so much for the money, more as a milestone for me - if it's worth paying for, it's hit a new level of quality.

Beyond that? We'll see when we get there, no need to overthink til then.

 

[Lex DeVille]

One of the problems I've encountered is getting stuck with long-term clients for content writing. I initially wanted to do some content writing to build up my feedback on Upwork, but now I'm trying to move onto Copywriting and it seems as if I'm stuck with these clients writing articles for them. I want to keep my hourly rate at $6 an hour until I land a few Copywriting jobs, then boost up my rate. Right now I could boost up my rate for content writing because I have people messaging me a lot to do jobs for them, but they're long-term. I haven't received any Copywriting jobs on Upwork yet.

Basically I'm looking for advice.
Should I boost my content writing price and apply for Copywriting jobs with that rate or should I keep my rate at $6 an hour and pursue small Copywriting jobs and build up my portfolio? I feel like I'm stuck right now.

Yes. Boost your content writing prices.

Be careful when you do this. You have to show them why it's happening.

Tell them you really enjoy working with them, but you simply have too many clients and others are paying double what they are.

Give them a date by which you'll stop writing for them so they know what to expect and that you're not just quitting.

Tell them you'll help them find a replacement, and actually do it.

Either your writing is so good they can't afford to let you go, or they'll replace you and it's not that big of a deal.

What's your success rating like? Are you sure it's the content gigs stopping you from getting copy work?

 

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[Mac]

I have 100% job success so far, but my contracts for my content gigs haven't ended yet. They're ongoing jobs for $6 an hour, so I can't get any real feedback unless the job ends. People can still see that I've earned $100 working for them though. The problem with picking up copy jobs is that I only have minimal experience, but I'm going to start writing a lot more samples to pack my portfolio until it's almost bursting in front of their eyes.

This article also helped me a lot: http://www.thegaryhalbertletter.com/newsletters/zgkl_best_copywriter.htm when it came to writing my bio.

I recommend that before anybody sits down and writes copy, they should write a huge list of facts & benefits about a product/service or even yourself, if you're writing your bio.

 

[SlowlaneJay]

I have 100% job success so far, but my contract for my content gigs haven't ended yet. They're ongoing jobs for $6 an hour, so I can't get any real feedback unless the job ends. People can still see that I've earned $100 working for them though.

When I'm ready to boost my rates, I'll ask my current clients if we can bill at the new rate, but for the same amount of work. As in:

Let's say it takes you two hours to write an article. At $6/hour that means $12/article.

Ask your client if you can write 5 articles for $60. But instead of billing 10HR@$6, bill 1HR@$60.

This way you'll have a public track record of your new rate.​

If you're having trouble getting your client to agree to this, offer a discount. In the above example, that would mean you do 6 articles for $60 (12HR@$5).

I've done this several times, the clients don't seem to mind.

You can also do this with a fixed price gig. If you're hired for a fixed rate, ask them if you can do an hourly gig but for a fixed number of hours. So if they want to pay you a $120 flat fee, ask if you can split it into two hours at $60 each.

Again, clients usually have no issue with this.

 

[TeflonDon]

The job success rating seems to have a pretty big impact too. In the 2 months leading up to last week, I had a total of 3 invites to interview. This week I've had at least 1 every day. Checked what's changed - I'm not longer unrated, feedback has been applied and got 100% job success. Pretty sure that's why I'm getting invites daily now. They're for pretty nice jobs too!

With that said I did have an unsatisfied client last week, the only copy I attempted to write so far. He wanted two pieces, was happy with the first, didn't like the second even with multiple revisions. He offered to pay for the first and part-pay for the 2nd, I refused, refunded, apologized for not delivering, and asked him to keep the other piece free. Is this likely to affect my job success score later on?

 

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[Lex DeVille]

The job success rating seems to have a pretty big impact too. In the 2 months leading up to last week, I had a total of 3 invites to interview. This week I've had at least 1 every day. Checked what's changed - I'm not longer unrated, feedback has been applied and got 100% job success. Pretty sure that's why I'm getting invites daily now. They're for pretty nice jobs too!

With that said I did have an unsatisfied client last week, the only copy I attempted to write so far. He wanted two pieces, was happy with the first, didn't like the second even with multiple revisions. He offered to pay for the first and part-pay for the 2nd, I refused, refunded, apologized for not delivering, and asked him to keep the other piece free. Is this likely to affect my job success score later on?

It's hard to say because Upwork hasn't released all of the details that go into calculating job success rating.

The whole thing is crap as far as I'm concerned.

I had 1 client leave 4.97 rating after no contact for months. It's the only less than perfect feedback I ever received, and it dropped my score to 82% job success from 100%. I was like wtf?! I offered revisions / money-back etc. and he never responded so I was just stuck with 82%.

That was months ago, and it took several months to raise. Eventually it went up to 88% and now it's stuck there. I've had VERY few people contact me for jobs since that time. Upwork promotes 90% & above as top rated and gives them recommendations and priority in pretty much everything.

So not only does the score have a negative impact because it looks bad, it seems it drops you in search ranking, and also hurts where you show up when applying to gigs. The only gigs I've had through Upwork lately were gigs I specifically applied to, and they certainly aren't at my old rates.

This is why it's about time for someone to build a better system.

I hope it's a Fastlaner and I hope they crush Upwork.

In the meantime the best you can do is to follow their "guidelines" as best you can and do whatever it takes to avoid getting any kind of negative feedback, whether public or private, because both impact the score.

 

[Five Star]

That was months ago, and it took several months to raise. Eventually it went up to 88% and now it's stuck there. I've had VERY few people contact me for jobs since that time. Upwork promotes 90% & above as top rated and gives them recommendations and priority in pretty much everything.

Is this no longer your primary income source? Just curious if where you're at now developed from your freelancing.

Apologies if it's already been discussed I haven't caught up on the whole thread yet.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Is this no longer your primary income source? Just curious if where you're at now developed from your freelancing.

Apologies if it's already been discussed I haven't caught up on the whole thread yet.

Most of the copywriting I do is offline. Not Upwork. I keep a few clients ongoing and spend most of my time working on Fastlane pursuits.

 

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[Mac]

Another problem Copywriters have always faced is getting their customers to believe that their copy actually works. Even world-class copywriters have to face this problem. There's a lot of experts that can't see things from the scope of a copywriter. It all depends on your client and if they're willing to put aside their egos... or the copy could just be bad. It's hard to gauge whether it's good copy or not if the client doesn't even test it.

 

[TeflonDon]

It's hard to say because Upwork hasn't released all of the details that go into calculating job success rating.

The whole thing is crap as far as I'm concerned.

I had 1 client leave 4.97 rating after no contact for months. It's the only less than perfect feedback I ever received, and it dropped my score to 82% job success from 100%. I was like wtf?! I offered revisions / money-back etc. and he never responded so I was just stuck with 82%.

That was months ago, and it took several months to raise. Eventually it went up to 88% and now it's stuck there. I've had VERY few people contact me for jobs since that time. Upwork promotes 90% & above as top rated and gives them recommendations and priority in pretty much everything.

So not only does the score have a negative impact because it looks bad, it seems it drops you in search ranking, and also hurts where you show up when applying to gigs. The only gigs I've had through Upwork lately were gigs I specifically applied to, and they certainly aren't at my old rates.

This is why it's about time for someone to build a better system.

I hope it's a Fastlaner and I hope they crush Upwork.

In the meantime the best you can do is to follow their "guidelines" as best you can and do whatever it takes to avoid getting any kind of negative feedback, whether public or private, because both impact the score.

I'm hoping I lucked out then, gave the refund & ended contract before it was finished/feedback was left.

Their auto-push for the 90%+ has to be what's making most difference. I've seen people with sub-80% landing nice jobs, so clients are probably willing to overlook it if the cover letter is good.

One job dropping you that much, for such a small rating, is ridiculous though. 4.97 = 99.4%. I'd love to know how they can hit you for 18% from that.

There's a lot of little niggles with the Upwork system. The reliability sucks, site goes down or errors regularly. The rating system is a complete mystery, and in all honesty, seems a bit pointless anyway. They say they use the best out of the 6, 12, and 24 month rating. Why have it then? Doesn't that minimize the effects of bad feedback?

With that, plus your situation, I think the system makes it easier for bad freelancers to keep a semi-decent rating, while great ones are punished for tiny mistakes. Eventually, we're all going to have 80-90% by the look of it.

Between the 10% charge, huge reliability issues, a confusing and messed up rating system, and other little issues Upwork has lots of weaknesses. There's also a lack of competition, somebody could definitely become dominant in this market. The need is to create the platform and have it running properly, and marketed well, before Upwork gets their shit together.