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NDA

Perry Rico

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Hello Guys,

Am I the only person here who is annoyed each time someone would like to discuss their idea but requires to sign NDA first?

Am I being naove or arrogant telling them, wy would I sign your NDA in fact I haven't heard your idea yet, what if we have the same idea, that would mean I am lockup in my mouth for the remaining years. Idea are dime a dozen "MJ Quote".

Or does anyone here give in eventually and signs the NDA?

I hope I am not just being egoistic!!!!but i do believe NDA is non sense
 
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NDA's have a time and place but I guess mostly used by paranoids who have lousy ideas that aren't worth stealing in the first place.

There are dishonest companies that wouldn't worry about your NDA anyway. Dyson was ripped off when he first tried to do his first deal in the US and he had a full patent.

Most recently @Likwid24 said that The Paint Brush Cover was ripped off for a time by a big US chain trying to cash in on the publicity. (While patent pending if I remember correctly).

@Perry Rico congratulations on what must be one of the shortest thread titles on the forum. :D
 

Perry Rico

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Thanks Guys, I am really annoyed that there are people who have a mindset of "no nda no business". are there anyone here who just take a bitter bite on it anyway?
Or most are willing to turn their back away each time presented with this NDA?
 
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Tyler Ellison

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I guess it depends on how much you want to do business, but usually the request to sign an NDA means working for somebody that has a 'scarcity' mindset and is overly controlling. Ultimately it means the person is fearful in some way. As we know, ideas without action are worthless.

I guess you could come back and make them sign a NDA for what information you possess and also a non-compete just to 1-up them. It's all just corporate pissing contests anyway...
 

CommonCents

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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Anyone who has ever been party to a lawsuit finds out the best money spent is anything upfront to mitigate risk. Every single employee, supplier, contractor signs one before setting foot in my biz. No exceptions. Having said that I just spent 100k earlier this year enforcing an nda/non-compete from a rogue (now former) employee that is now banned completely from the industry for another year and a half. "justice" is expensive and rare.

All NDA's are not alike. It's like saying, don't sign a lease. Use them and have them written in your best interest. Insist on mutual NDA's. Being on the end of being asked to sign one, you aren't barred from anything they disclose. It has to be some type of proprietary info, not some idea in public domain or already disclosed etc... You can limit the scope.

Any agreement is what you make of it that two parties agree to.

Entrepreneurs tend to skimp on legal stuff. It is like skimping on insurance. Penny wise, pound foolish. Invest in your own legal upfront and have things written in your own best interest. Rather than letting the other party present you their documents, because guess what, they've made the upfront legal investment with their own advocate.
 

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I would answer this, but I would need you to execute an NDA first.
 
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Perry Rico

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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Anyone who has ever been party to a lawsuit finds out the best money spent is anything upfront to mitigate risk. Every single employee, supplier, contractor signs one before setting foot in my biz. No exceptions. Having said that I just spent 100k earlier this year enforcing an nda/non-compete from a rogue (now former) employee that is now banned completely from the industry for another year and a half. "justice" is expensive and rare.

All NDA's are not alike. It's like saying, don't sign a lease. Use them and have them written in your best interest. Insist on mutual NDA's. Being on the end of being asked to sign one, you aren't barred from anything they disclose. It has to be some type of proprietary info, not some idea in public domain or already disclosed etc... You can limit the scope.

Any agreement is what you make of it that two parties agree to.

Entrepreneurs tend to skimp on legal stuff. It is like skimping on insurance. Penny wise, pound foolish. Invest in your own legal upfront and have things written in your own best interest. Rather than letting the other party present you their documents, because guess what, they've made the upfront legal investment with their own advocate.


To make things even more annoying!

THEY WANTED THE NDA GET SIGNED FIRST. before disclosing what the topic is all about.
 

Perry Rico

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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Anyone who has ever been party to a lawsuit finds out the best money spent is anything upfront to mitigate risk. Every single employee, supplier, contractor signs one before setting foot in my biz. No exceptions. Having said that I just spent 100k earlier this year enforcing an nda/non-compete from a rogue (now former) employee that is now banned completely from the industry for another year and a half. "justice" is expensive and rare.

All NDA's are not alike. It's like saying, don't sign a lease. Use them and have them written in your best interest. Insist on mutual NDA's. Being on the end of being asked to sign one, you aren't barred from anything they disclose. It has to be some type of proprietary info, not some idea in public domain or already disclosed etc... You can limit the scope.

Any agreement is what you make of it that two parties agree to.

Entrepreneurs tend to skimp on legal stuff. It is like skimping on insurance. Penny wise, pound foolish. Invest in your own legal upfront and have things written in your own best interest. Rather than letting the other party present you their documents, because guess what, they've made the upfront legal investment with their own advocate.


To make things even more annoying!

THEY WANTED THE NDA GET SIGNED FIRST. before disclosing what the topic is all about.
 

Perry Rico

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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Anyone who has ever been party to a lawsuit finds out the best money spent is anything upfront to mitigate risk. Every single employee, supplier, contractor signs one before setting foot in my biz. No exceptions. Having said that I just spent 100k earlier this year enforcing an nda/non-compete from a rogue (now former) employee that is now banned completely from the industry for another year and a half. "justice" is expensive and rare.

All NDA's are not alike. It's like saying, don't sign a lease. Use them and have them written in your best interest. Insist on mutual NDA's. Being on the end of being asked to sign one, you aren't barred from anything they disclose. It has to be some type of proprietary info, not some idea in public domain or already disclosed etc... You can limit the scope.

Any agreement is what you make of it that two parties agree to.

Entrepreneurs tend to skimp on legal stuff. It is like skimping on insurance. Penny wise, pound foolish. Invest in your own legal upfront and have things written in your own best interest. Rather than letting the other party present you their documents, because guess what, they've made the upfront legal investment with their own advocate.


To make things even more annoying!

THEY WANTED THE NDA GET SIGNED FIRST. before disclosing what the topic is all about.
 
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Mattie

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Hmm...you stated that three times. lol
 

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Bouncing Soul

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If you're looking to pitch VCs, NDA makes you look like a rookie, however after the pitch (EDIT- if successful!) an NDA will be put in place. NDAs are fairly standard practice in the B2B world once you've had enough conversation to establish you want to work together.
 

PatricianCat

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If their idea is THAT good and they know it they should be protecting themselves through a patent or copyright and having a prototype developed. NDA's are a waste of time for small discussions.
 

Jon L

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I think it very much depends on the kind of business you're dealing with, and the industry. In some industries, you just don't do business without one. In others - especially with smaller companies, they get annoyed and look at you distrustfully if you suggest putting an NDA in place.

All that said, NDA's aren't important, until they become important, and then they're really important.
--personal experience

But an NDA just to hear an idea? Good Lord. Next!
 

croman

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Ok,

My situation....

I created an amusement park attraction.

I need to have an engineered approval.

This is done by a firm that may have done this type of work or working close for many years with my compettion(ride manufacturers).

Do I have them sign an nda????


Another example,

I am taking my plans within a month to a major fabricator here in Canada that claims to have experience in fabricating roller coasters(mine is a highwire obstacle course-...sorta...yes I'm being vague and paranoid.lol).

Do I have them both sign an nda before I open talks with them? Immediately?
They deal with big boys in my industry that have teams of creative engineers that could theoretically jack my idea.
For my industry its first to market.

I need to roll out FAST,!!!


Would you have both or either sign a NDA?

Please advise with experience and detail.

Thanks
In advance

Croman
 

Jon L

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Ok,

My situation....

I created an amusement park attraction.

I need to have an engineered approval.

This is done by a firm that may have done this type of work or working close for many years with my compettion(ride manufacturers).

Do I have them sign an nda????


Another example,

I am taking my plans within a month to a major fabricator here in Canada that claims to have experience in fabricating roller coasters(mine is a highwire obstacle course-...sorta...yes I'm being vague and paranoid.lol).

Do I have them both sign an nda before I open talks with them? Immediately?
They deal with big boys in my industry that have teams of creative engineers that could theoretically jack my idea.
For my industry its first to market.

I need to roll out FAST,!!!


Would you have both or either sign a NDA?

Please advise with experience and detail.

Thanks
In advance

Croman
YES! most definitely have an NDA in place. You can talk basics with them, but don't give them any idea of the details until you have an NDA in place. This idea is easily copied - especially by people with big budgets that create new rides professionally.
 
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Perry Rico

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I think it very much depends on the kind of business you're dealing with, and the industry. In some industries, you just don't do business without one. In others - especially with smaller companies, they get annoyed and look at you distrustfully if you suggest putting an NDA in place.

All that said, NDA's aren't important, until they become important, and then they're really important.
--personal experience

But an NDA just to hear an idea? Good Lord. Next!
yeah, they wanted NDA just to hear their idea
 

croman

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Emailed a steel fabricating company.

They are right in my area, and have produced a major roller coaster...so they have real credibility in the amusement industry.

Again, my attraction is not a roller coaster.

I explained what I'm up to(vaguely) and asked if they would sign a NDA,..

They said they most definitely would.

Now, the question....

Only have NDA signed by this contact person that is made out to the company name???

Or.....?

Should I purchase an Online NDA form from a place like legal zoom or law.com(just examples) or one of these online legal forms companies sufficient for an NDA?

Any recommendations on this and what to and not to include in the NDA?

Thanks in advance

Croman
 
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Jon L

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Emailed a steel fabricating company.

They are right in my area, and have produced a major roller coaster...so they have real credibility in the amusement industry.

Again, my attraction is not a roller coaster.

I explained what I'm up to(vaguely) and asked if they would sign a NDA,..

They said they most definitely would.

Now, the question....

Only have NDA signed by this contact person that is made out to the company name???

Or.....?

Should I purchase an Online NDA form from a place like legal zoom or law.com(just examples) or one of these online legal forms companies sufficient for an NDA?

Any recommendations on this and what to and not to include in the NDA?

Thanks in advance

Croman
I just PM'd you an NDA I use
 
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johnp

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I don't understand what the problem is...

Just sign it. It takes 5 seconds.

I really don't see what the big deal is, especially because you are in the idea/startup biz. Dealing with this stuff is part of your business. If anything, I would see this as a great opportunity to sell your service. When your prospect asks you to sign and NDA they are basically yelling I don't trust you. I don't know if I can do business with you. That's the perfect time to sell them!

If you build trust and rapport then you will close 99% of deals. But from where I"m standing, it looks like you don't want to do that. It looks like you would much rather disrespect your prospects...so you will probably fail in this biz, unless you change your perspective.
 

Perry Rico

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ok, i am negotiating 1 year holding period. sounds fair?

The reason I negotiate on NDA is that most likely everyone of us had heard every kind of idea, signing nda will mean it will be in conflict with the projects you might had worked before. and IT is fast moving, what you've heard now is no longer a secret 6 mos down the road, I dont want in a position where all people already taliking about a technology where I cant talk about it due to NDA.
 
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Jon L

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ok, i am negotiating 1 year holding period. sounds fair?

The reason I negotiate on NDA is that most likely everyone of us had heard every kind of idea, signing nda will mean it will be in conflict with the projects you might had worked before. and IT is fast moving, what you've heard now is no longer a secret 6 mos down the road, I dont want in a position where all people already taliking about a technology where I cant talk about it due to NDA.
the NDA you sign needs to take this scenario into account. "If this confidential information becomes public knowledge through no fault of either parties, then the receiving party is free to use it however they see fit." or something like that...
 

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Jon L

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In my world, NDAs are standard operating procedure. Most simply say I won't disclose your proprietary information and you won't disclose mine without the others prior approval. It's what you do if you want to play with the grown ups. I don't get the hate...

Cheers,
O-2
I think the hate centers around people who think that an unproven idea has value.

"I have an idea that will kill Facebook."
"Have you done anything with it?"
"No, I need funding. I need to buy a few data centers - one in the Western US, one in the East, and one probably in France. Wanna give me some money? First, though, you gotta sign this NDA."

Now, if you're an established, profitable business, and you want to divulge some of your secret sauce to outsourced programmers, then by all means, use an NDA.
 

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