Where did I go wrong?? Lost a huge sale

[dompie85]

Hey guys. Seems like everything was going well. Both parties seemed to understand what was needed. I think I know where I went wrong, but is that the only factor?

I dropped in to this new restaurant going up and told them about how we install cameras. The owner was very cool and down to earth. He stated, "yes, we need security cameras. About 12 of them. Our grand opening is a few days away". Great. He seemed a little busy at the time but still managed to talk (business) for a little and came to an understanding of what was needed. Everything seemed to be going very well. A ballpark figure 4700 was thrown out there with a +-500 margin. I felt like I won this contract.
(I think this is where I messed up) I told him that I will see him tomorrow with a proposal to present to him, got all of his contact information and left.
Come back the next day (Once at 11am, he was training new staff. Suggested to came back again around 4:30pm) with everything ready to go. When I get there, he tells a manager to tell me that they chose this other (large) company. This other company specializes in alarm systems which they also needed. Guess they have camera systems too.

Everything seemed very solid, but where did I go wrong?
I feel like If I had attempted to close the deal yesterday, I wouldn't be writing this.
Back out on the hunt for a new contract tomorrow.

 

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[Mattie]

Sounds like to me maybe you didn't have what he needed. Alarm systems with cameras. Unless you left something out. And perhaps the pricing was a better deal for both than just the cameras.

 

[Tiago]

Why don't you just ask?

It could be because the competitors offer was better, they didn't trust your safety camera system, or they didn't like the color of the shirt you were wearing that day.

Instead of wasting energy wondering about this, try to get feedback directly from the source and learn from it so you can close the next deal.

 

[jason91]

Hey guys. Seems like everything was going well. Both parties seemed to understand what was needed. I think I know where I went wrong, but is that the only factor?

I dropped in to this new restaurant going up and told them about how we install cameras. The owner was very cool and down to earth. He stated, "yes, we need security cameras. About 12 of them. Our grand opening is a few days away". Great. He seemed a little busy at the time but still managed to talk (business) for a little and came to an understanding of what was needed. Everything seemed to be going very well. A ballpark figure 4700 was thrown out there with a +-500 margin. I felt like I won this contract.
(I think this is where I messed up) I told him that I will see him tomorrow with a proposal to present to him, got all of his contact information and left.
Come back the next day (Once at 11am, he was training new staff. Suggested to came back again around 4:30pm) with everything ready to go. When I get there, he tells a manager to tell me that they chose this other (large) company. This other company specializes in alarm systems which they also needed. Guess they have camera systems too.

Everything seemed very solid, but where did I go wrong?
I feel like If I had attempted to close the deal yesterday, I wouldn't be writing this.
Back out on the hunt for a new contract tomorrow.

How did you arrive at 4700? Did you check for competitor pricing?

4700 for 12 cameras on the premise of 1 restaurant seems a bit high. I was working security stuff a couple years ago, never had a single small location pay 4700 for cameras. And with you only making 500 margin on 4700, not sure how that is possible

Owner either felt your offer was a ripoff, or the bigger company was more reassuring + the security alarm. IMO, the not closing on day 1 isn't the primary reason why you lost the deal

 

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[mayana]

I'm only guessing, but I would say that the other company was probably able to give them a better price on alarm+security cameras - basically, a package. Maybe a discount, and just one check to write instead of two - seems like an easy choice for the owner.

They seem like complementary products - maybe (if you don't have the contacts and skills yourself) you could contract another company to install alarms, too, so you won't let another deal slip. I don't know about this market, but maybe a lot of companies offer both?

 

[dompie85]

@Tiago After I wrote this, I found out that my friend got a gig to work on there Point Of Sale system directly through me, So I'll be in the picture on that and I'll ask why. The guy seems cool so he'll be strait up with me @jason91 I actually work sales with a security camera company and know what they charge, along with what competitors charge. When I'm not doing sales for them, I'm out building up my own business. The 4700 figure I came up with is a lower than average price (according to competitors). Not to mention, I never presented the proposal.

I'll be back over there any why since my friend that gig there through me... Aside from the quoted price, was wondering if a more experienced salesperson noticed any flaws in the way this situation played out.

P.S. Already have another bite, on to the next one

 

[Dwight Schrute]

they chose this other (large) company

From TMF , Chapter 40: Look big, act small.
Doesn't only help to keep the competition at bay, but also to build trust.

wondering if a more experienced salesperson noticed any flaws in the way this situation played out

Experienced? Yes. Successful? Not so much, but I learned a lot. Please take my comment with a grain of salt.

will see him tomorrow

Reflecting back to my times as a mediocre (read:unsuccessful) realtor,
this was a mistake I made quite often.

Your offer put your customer in a position where he had to make a decision now, and he or you procrastinated.

Bad mistake, because the competition approached him afterwards and closed immediately.

+ they might have had a higher perceived value with their offer.
Why should I go to 2 different shops to buy my stuff if I could get it all in one?
Less hassle, even if it costs a little more

P.S. Already have another bite, on to the next one

 

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[94blackbird]

@Tiago After I wrote this, I found out that my friend got a gig to work on there Point Of Sale system directly through me, So I'll be in the picture on that and I'll ask why. The guy seems cool so he'll be strait up with me @jason91 I actually work sales with a security camera company and know what they charge, along with what competitors charge. When I'm not doing sales for them, I'm out building up my own business. The 4700 figure I came up with is a lower than average price (according to competitors). Not to mention, I never presented the proposal.

I'll be back over there any why since my friend that gig there through me... Aside from the quoted price, was wondering if a more experienced salesperson noticed any flaws in the way this situation played out.

P.S. Already have another bite, on to the next one

As has already been stated above, it's probably that your competitors offer sounded better or their reputation is more solid or any number of reasons. Another thing to consider on pricing, you can price yourself out of a gig by being too low just as fast as being too high. Sometimes people (even savvy business owners) like being raped in their wallets because they get that warm and fuzzy that they are paying for the best, regardless of if what they purchase actually is the best, or a cheaper alternative will get the job done just as well.

That's not to say that that is always the case, "you get what you pay for" exists because it can be generally construed to be true. Which in turn can wind up being applied across all things, even if the better value lay with the cheaper option, people will look at it with the tinted glasses of "you get what you pay for".

If it were me I would look again, very closely at what my competitors are doing, what they are offering and for what prices. Be careful with "lower than average". Someone might see a lower than average price, apply "you get what you pay for", then they could expect that your lower than average price provides lower than average service (less value). You might be the most kick a$$ camera installer-seller in the world, best bang for your buck value provider. If you aren't perceived as such, then it won't matter how good you are. Most especially if you're prices are way out of line with your competitors and your potential customers are using "you get what you pay for" in doing their research.

 

[jason91]

@jason91 I actually work sales with a security camera company and know what they charge, along with what competitors charge. When I'm not doing sales for them, I'm out building up my own business. The 4700 figure I came up with is a lower than average price (according to competitors). Not to mention, I never presented the proposal.

I'll be back over there any why since my friend that gig there through me... Aside from the quoted price, was wondering if a more experienced salesperson noticed any flaws in the way this situation played out.

Unless the restaurant is huge, more than 1 floor, and requires major wiring / piping, 4700 is an outrageous number for just cameras.

In general $100-$150 per camera is average labor price, plus the charge on equipment maybe bringing you to around 3-4k for a fair price.. lower 4s would probably be a higher end cost for 12 cameras. Really confused on how the other company you work at charges more than 4700 on 12 cameras for a single location. Maybe New York and Florida just have totally different prices? Or you're in a premium location where all competitors are charging that?

Some other possible reasons:

Did you tell them you were licensed in Florida to do CCTV installations? That you have insurance and understand all the building codes and regulations for camera installations? If it wasn't the price, it must've been something in your pitch. He probably felt more assured with the bigger company. Otherwise he would've chose you for the cameras and the alarm company for alarms.

How are you only making 500 on a 4700 job? Are you buying your supplies from a retailer? ADI is a well known national CCTV distributor, but there's plenty of others. Still in a daze only +-500 profit for 4700

 

[theag]

Hooray clickbait.

Based on the title I expected at least a mid 5 figure deal gone wrong

 

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[Vigilante]

Unless the restaurant is huge, more than 1 floor, and requires major wiring / piping, 4700 is an outrageous number for just cameras.

In general $100-$150 per camera is average labor price, plus the charge on equipment maybe bringing you to around 3-4k for a fair price.. lower 4s would probably be a higher end cost for 12 cameras. Really confused on how the other company you work at charges more than 4700 on 12 cameras for a single location. Maybe New York and Florida just have totally different prices? Or you're in a premium location where all competitors are charging that?

Some other possible reasons:

Did you tell them you were licensed in Florida to do CCTV installations? That you have insurance and understand all the building codes and regulations for camera installations? If it wasn't the price, it must've been something in your pitch. He probably felt more assured with the bigger company. Otherwise he would've chose you for the cameras and the alarm company for alarms.

How are you only making 500 on a 4700 job? Are you buying your supplies from a retailer? ADI is a well known national CCTV distributor, but there's plenty of others. Still in a daze only +-500 profit for 4700

Having owned one of the largest CCTV installation companies in the country, I was going to respond to this. You said everything that I would've said. Speed +

Our fee for that job would've been a flat rate fee of $75 per camera drop, $200 for programming including remote access video surveillance integration, and around $1200 for all of the equipment including 12 cameras and a remote access DVR with hard drive. Our bid on this job would've been in the neighborhood of $2200 -$2400. Flat rate. No surprises, no variance.

The OP makes me want to get back into the game.

 

[dompie85]

Will reevaluate what my competitors are up to. @jason91 i meant +-500 to the customer. I would be making around 150% on the deal, after the cost of the equipment. And 50% of that would go to buy new equipment for the next customer, so that would leave me with a 100% profit from the cost of the equipment (around 1150) Btw, I also sold 2 cam system to this lady for 1500 and she didnt mind the least bit about the price.

@Vigilante it's a lot of fun, I love it!

 

[Get Right]

Is this an isolated missed sale or has this happened before?

 

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[johnp]

He stated, "yes, we need security cameras. About 12 of them. Our grand opening is a few days away".

You can't lose a sale that you never had in the first place.

I view the response as validation that he needed the product. You qualified the prospect, but you didn't close him for some reason.

It happened all of the time to me as I got started in sales, usually because I did something wrong at some point in the process. It still happens. Just part of sales.

Ask him why he didn't buy from you and use this as a learning experience.

And btw - Yes never means yes, especially in the restaurant business. Take everything they say with a grain of salt. Yes = when they pay you.

 

[dompie85]

@Get Right I've read a few of your posts on sales, you have some great insight. This has not happened before. I'm learning as I go. Lesson learned? Ask if they have been shopping the market? If what numbers have they come up with and from who? Have a proposal sheet so you can write the proposal then and there. Have an invoice sheet on hand to write up their custom order. Have contract (I think invoice and proposal should be enough though) Sign, and close.
Sounds simple enough, just a matter of a day or 2 before before I get another appointment

@Vigilante I was reviewing the numbers, there is plenty of wiggle room. But I didn't want to be the person who bid too low.

 

[Vigilante]

@Get Right I've read a few of your posts on sales, you have some great insight. This has not happened before. I'm learning as I go. Lesson learned? Ask if they have been shopping the market? If what numbers have they come up with and from who? Have a proposal sheet so you can write the proposal then and there. Have an invoice sheet on hand to write up their custom order. Have contract (I think invoice and proposal should be enough though) Sign, and close.
Sounds simple enough, just a matter of a day or 2 before before I get another appointment

@Vigilante I was reviewing the numbers, there is plenty of wiggle room. But I didn't want to be the person who bid too low.

I want(ed) to be that guy, every time. We had a flat rate. The industry hated us, but customers loved us.

Each camera drop for $75. On any given job, some camera drops were profitable, some were not. Drop panel ceiling? Dropping a camera takes 15 minutes. Warehouse location? 15 minutes. Wall fishing? Much longer (obviously). However, what I wanted was to win. We cut the average installation in half. We won every job we bid on. We never lost money.

The average 12 camera installation can be completed by a tech in a day. Assuming you are paying the tech $50 an hour, you're paying labor of $400 plus expenses. I could buy the hardware for a grand maybe, including the DVR. So I have hard expenses (not including equipment, etc... but you already own all of that) of $1400.

The industry has been ripping consumers off for a LONG time. There is absolutely zero reason this job should cost someone $4k. That's why we won. The industry hated our flat rate schedule, but the customers loved it. We commoditized what had until then been a good ol' boy network, and we applied a Wal-Mart type scale to it.

You lost the job. I am telling you, I would have won it using the above method. And rather than posting about it and licking your wounds over it, your team would be over there right now doing the installation. Your sales method was old school. If you want to increase your revenue by 10x, change your model.

If I own a truck and a ladder and a screwdriver, what I need is more work. The only acceptable answer, assuming I can break even to make money, is more work. I want every single job I come into contact with. I am not worried about "underbidding" as I know what my real, no bullshit costs are. I am more worried about my guys not having enough work to do.

If given the choice of taking a full schedule and making $10k net, or a half schedule and making $10k net, I take the full schedule. It allows me to scale. It allows the word of mouth to spread. It allows me "overhead absorption."

 

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[Get Right]

Sounds simple enough, just a matter of a day or 2 before before I get another appointment

I think you need a larger "sample" before you know what is/isn't working. Try to double your appointments also - you aren't seeing enough potential clients.

Vig gave you some solid advice. Try it on a few and see what happens.

This is all just "learning to sell" your product.

 

[Get Right]

Sorry forgot a question for you - Did you have your install van outside with your tech ready to put the cameras in the minute he signed?

 

[RHL]

I was going to type up some analytical response, but you already know the cause of the breakdown:

You never ever should have gone in to meet without the ability to walk out with a signature and a check.

 

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[IrishSpring600]

I was going to type up some analytical response, but you already know the cause of the breakdown:

You never ever should have gone in to meet without the ability to walk out with a signature and a check.

To emphasize...

"I told him that I will see him tomorrow with a proposal to present to him, got all of his contact information and left."

That's like the equivalent of going to a woman and telling her "I'm going to get your number tomorrow"

This makes them feel pressured.

But now it's too late for buyer's remorse. There is nothing to remorse about!

always.

be.

closing.

 

[dompie85]

@IrishSpring600 @RHL great analogies! I revised my pricing and sales pack completely. Going to hit the field and see how that plays out.

@Get Right No I did not... Was a cold sales drop-in. Maybe I should use my truck for cold drop-ins

 

[Get Right]

No I did not... Was a cold sales drop-in. Maybe I should use my truck for cold drop-ins

I was thinking more of a mind-shift. I go into meetings like that with the intent to close the deal and start work immediately. Thus the install truck outside.

My attitude is "I'm going to install these cameras in this restaurant today", all I need is this guy to sign something and I can get on with my goal (to install cameras in this restaurant today). Hell, take a tape measure with you and start measuring stuff right then. Remember - nothing is going to stop you from your goal (to install these cameras today).

Pro-Tip: If they blow you off or aren't signing and you have nothing left in your arsenal ask this "What would it take for me to start working with you today?"

Pro-Tip #2: When you are selling B2B try to train your brain to think that your customer and you are business partners. In your case this would make you a "restaurant co-owner" with your customer. You are after the same goal (success of the restaurant). You'll do anything to help make your partnership a success. And make damn sure you take your girlfriend to eat there that night.

Pro-Tip #3: Condense your proposal/invoice/whatever to 1 page. If you can't describe what you are doing in 1 page you either don't know what you are doing or you are trying to BS me. (If you need to send legal jargon, mail it later). Make sure you can execute the contract right there.

I'm rooting for ya'!

 

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[Christiano]

Well, having sold industrial grade cameras where we charged almost twice the price (Lumenera Corp.) with margins over 40% in my territory (annual target of 1M), I can tell you that price isn't everything.

With that said, here are suggested takeaways:

1) Whenever someone is looking for cameras. Ask why they want them and how they specifically plan on using them first.
(We know that all the camera is, is an eye so there almost always requires some form of integration with something)
People don't care about cameras. They care about the problem that cameras contribute to solving. In this case, it has to do with automated security for protection of a business (which by the way, might lower they guy's commercial insurance rates too). By focusing on the solution, you ask all the right questions which I am writing down for this specific example.
2) Ask if they have a plan in place on what to do with the footage? Is it monitored by people or stored? If it's stored, do they have that taken care of? If they don't, talk about that. If they do, ask if there are any requirements they need to meet to make sure everything works together.
3) Ask specifically, when do they need it implemented by? The grand opening is in a few days. Do you need this done by then, before then or does after work?

Let them dictate the timeline from your questions. Then propose a solution that addresses all their criteria within the timeline they require. Heck, if they guy says 24 hours, I'd say $4700 in 5 days and $5000 in 24 hours. Give them the choice.

That's how you sell. Consultative sales methodology. Walk them through the solution that drives why they are looking to buy from you. Do this and the sale is a formality. Pricing needs to be competitive and not the lowest.

Anyway, just my two cents. Been doing sales for over 10 years. Fun stuff.

 

[dompie85]

So, I find out today that this restaurant DID NOT go with that other company. Or any other company for that matter! I got my friend the gig there (after me pitching my gig and friend shooting over there later) for doing their PoS systems. He asked the manager why he didn't want to consider my service. Mind you, price was never even discussed! The manager told him that my approached seemed somewhat, shady. Something didn't seem, legit. Friend mentioned that I do a great job, and manager says, well, maybe I shouldn't be a salesman. :/

Good news is, since my friend has the PoS gig, they still need cameras and they have not went with anybody yet, so friend said he'll try to put in a good word about me for them to reconsider. Is there anything I can do on my part to help this decision?

P.S. I think I might have solved the issue with future clients. I have my sales packets all ready with a proposal and invoice all on hand so I can close right then and there, same day, no BS. And I have educated myself with more about alternative options so everything rolls off the tongue instantly without hesitation.

 

[MitchC]

Telling him plus or minus $500 probably gave him the shady vibe

 

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[safff]

There's nothing more I hate than 'I'll come back with firm details tomorrow' or 'it will cost xyz plus or minus.. That's usually enough to make me go elsewhere if it's not too much hassle to do so

I like to know exactly what discussion we've had (You might have, did he though?), what the cost implications are, and an e-mail follow up as soon as humanely possible even if it means putting in a late shift with some variables that you'll firm up on.

Rather than 1000 plus or minus [HASHTAG]#500[/HASHTAG], say "$1,500 - but I'll go away firm up the details today and see how far I can drive that price down for you." Then if you can come back with 1000 - drop the price a little..

It's all about perception, and I've awarded contracts to contractors charging a bit more but seeming to have a much better approach.

If they're opening in a few days and you leave it until tomorrow to come back with a proposal and a big gap in the day with no contact even if they've asked for it - you're opening up for them to question your reliability rightly or wrongly.. whereas an email the night after day one to say 'here's what we discussed, Preliminary quote is xxx but may be cheaper' (be sure not to go up from this - it's never to give a rough estimate and go at the upper end of that estimate or higher) and another cut down summary of the proposal sent after you leave at 11am giving a firmer price and information shows initiative and wanting to get the job done, as well as having their interests in mind

 

[Vigilante]

So, I find out today that this restaurant DID NOT go with that other company. Or any other company for that matter! I got my friend the gig there (after me pitching my gig and friend shooting over there later) for doing their PoS systems. He asked the manager why he didn't want to consider my service. Mind you, price was never even discussed! The manager told him that my approached seemed somewhat, shady. Something didn't seem, legit. Friend mentioned that I do a great job, and manager says, well, maybe I shouldn't be a salesman. :/

Good news is, since my friend has the PoS gig, they still need cameras and they have not went with anybody yet, so friend said he'll try to put in a good word about me for them to reconsider. Is there anything I can do on my part to help this decision?

P.S. I think I might have solved the issue with future clients. I have my sales packets all ready with a proposal and invoice all on hand so I can close right then and there, same day, no BS. And I have educated myself with more about alternative options so everything rolls off the tongue instantly without hesitation.

That's even worse than them selecting a competitor.

 

[jason91]

So, I find out today that this restaurant DID NOT go with that other company. Or any other company for that matter! I got my friend the gig there (after me pitching my gig and friend shooting over there later) for doing their PoS systems. He asked the manager why he didn't want to consider my service. Mind you, price was never even discussed! The manager told him that my approached seemed somewhat, shady. Something didn't seem, legit. Friend mentioned that I do a great job, and manager says, well, maybe I shouldn't be a salesman. :/

Good news is, since my friend has the PoS gig, they still need cameras and they have not went with anybody yet, so friend said he'll try to put in a good word about me for them to reconsider. Is there anything I can do on my part to help this decision?

P.S. I think I might have solved the issue with future clients. I have my sales packets all ready with a proposal and invoice all on hand so I can close right then and there, same day, no BS. And I have educated myself with more about alternative options so everything rolls off the tongue instantly without hesitation.

I don't know how you usually pitch prospects, but mentally - are you more concerned about making their business safer and easier to operate? Or seeing the money go into your wallet? Are you doing HIM a favor? Or are you trying to get something from him?

Your vibe can be oozing of value, or oozing of need - people pick up on it. Don't think about getting the money from him, focus on how much safer you'll make his business.

It seems to me that you're too caught up in sales packets proposals and profits blah blah. Your whole purpose as a salesman is to link the customer's needs to services or products that will solve them. Money comes to you as a byproduct of the customer knowing what you have = what he wants.

When you are focused on sales packets and closing, you become focused on the wrong things. Closing will happen naturally as the prospect becomes more comfortable and interested in your offer. Closing isn't some skill you use to get money out of their pocket - it's the point where the customer knows what you offer will help him greatly, and the natural thing to do next is set up the date / time.

 

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[dompie85]

I don't think it was the money factor, I did want to help them, can't say I didn't get excited though. I think it was my presentation. I walked in, said what I do, got a bite, we (the Manager, and the owner the second time I dropped in) talked for a little, heard him out and what they need, and (the second drop in) I asked him to show me around a little (where cameras may be needed). It was most likely my lack of inexperience. Maybe I let him talk too much and I didn't do enough? I didn't talk about benefits because I assumed they already know them, I didn't think I needed to. But I think I should have. We walked around to show where he thinks cameras should go, I didn't take notes, just mental ones. Thats my opinion on where I think I went wrong, and have corrected all of those.

 

[jason91]

I don't think it was the money factor, I did want to help them, can't say I didn't get excited though. I think it was my presentation. I walked in, said what I do, got a bite, we (the Manager, and the owner the second time I dropped in) talked for a little, heard him out and what they need, and (the second drop in) I asked him to show me around a little (where cameras may be needed). It was most likely my lack of inexperience. Maybe I let him talk too much and I didn't do enough? I didn't talk about benefits because I assumed they already know them, I didn't think I needed to. But I think I should have. We walked around to show where he thinks cameras should go, I didn't take notes, just mental ones. Thats my opinion on where I think I went wrong, and have corrected all of those.

Oh... how many installations have you done before?

- Do you understand how to drill and fish wires through the wall?
- Understand building codes so you don't violate any with your installation?
- Are you licensed for CCTV installations? Might be low voltage license, or alarm license - not sure about Florida
- Is your company insured?

You need to demonstrate to him you're competent and able to deliver, show him why choosing you is a good choice.

He probably knows what cameras can do at the basic level. You should tell him extra features: "You can watch the video on your phone any time! Even while you're sitting at home, you can see what's going on in your restaurant." Basically show him that you have extensive knowledge and understanding of what you're selling, as well as extra features he might not know.

You need to sell yourself better. If you're not sure you can deliver, he won't be sure choosing you is the right choice.