Lex DeVille's: How to Make $1,000 a Week with no Degree, no Feedback, & no Portfolio.

[The Grind]

Update:

After working with several clients, I'm starting to push away from this. It pays my bills now to the point where I don't even worry about the fact that I won't see the money I make for a month.

I opened my Upwork account in May. Within a few months, I've created myself a job. I have 3 long-term clients, one I'm about to end, and 1 JV deal (this is the most Fastlane thing I do right now and has the potential to replace every other client I have. I take a % of profits.).

(Background: I didn't start with 0 experience, I had been freelancing on and off for a few years by this point, only using referrals and, at the very beginning, Fiverr. If you want to start from 0, Fiverr is a great place to build a portfolio.)

This is not Fastlane. Not even close. But it pays the bills and leaves me extra... which I can then take and put into my own Fastlane pursuit. (It might end up as a progress thread.)

So some tips for anyone who wants to start doing this kind of thing:

General Tips:

• Treat it like a job. If you have a job already, the only reason you would do this is to get better at a skill or to replace your income. (Full disclosure: I haven't had a job in years due to school + freelancing)
• Go in with realistic expectations. Freelancing does not necessarily lead into Fastlane pursuits, it just gives you a little experience and capital... and a network to start with.
• Increase your rate with every job you get, and stop at a number that's high enough to deter people who aren't serious. You'll be busy if you do this right. I turn people down left and right. I quote people prices that I doubt they'll pay. I do this on purpose: to show my value AND to shoo away those who aren't serious.
• Use your unfair advantages. I picked a niche based on experiences unique to me and skills that I have that most don't.
• No unfair advantages? Learn your intelligence, and learn how to use that intelligence to learn a skill, and then use that skill to fill a demand. What are you inclined to be good at? Do this and you'll be a 'digital nomad' in less than a year. I guarantee it.
• Start today. If you haven't started, do it right now. http://upwork.com - Click it before you read the rest!

Picking and Getting Clients:

• Your cover letter is the first place to practice your copy. Write it like a sales letter. Those who have seen my cover letters know why they work, and it's because they sell. I'll elaborate a little bit more on this if people want.
• Pick a client that you know you can help and then communicate how you can help them and why. This will mitigate the fear of hiring someone with no feedback.
• Offer a guarantee and promise satisfaction. If you keep reading my tips, you'll learn how to keep this promise.
• Write each cover letter individually. Put in the TIME and you will improve the chances of getting the client. Don't use a template, don't MAKE a template, don't use copy-paste... just don't try and cut corners.
• In the beginning, writing cover letters will be your biggest time suck. Be HAPPY that you get to spend 8 hours writing cover letters and applying for jobs. That's the most fun part, because you are practicing copy in a way that is results-driven! If you can sell yourself, you can sell a gizmo. Truth.

Pleasing Clients:

• Get on the phone/Skype as soon as possible. Don't fear the phone. I used to fear the phone. Now, I love it. I don't hesitate to call anymore. If they give me a phone number, I jump on it. And I am quick to give mine. I make more money from people who have my phone number.
• Overdeliver. If you're expecting to work 10 hours, and you quoted 10 hours, put in 12 and see what you come up with.
• Give a progress report regularly and schedule regular calls. I try to call twice a week, but it depends on the client. Some clients like to be hands-off and have you conduct everything, while others micromanage and will ask to edit every little thing. I hate both of these kinds of clients: i like em in the middle.
• Be okay with edits. If they tell you that what you wrote or designed is not what they want, guess what? That's on you, bub. Get better at communicating and fix your mistakes.
• On the other hand, don't be afraid to end a job. Finish one job and then if they want more (or if it's a long hourly contract), tell them that your calendar is filling up and that they would be better served picking someone else.
• Communication is key. Be sure you understand what they need. Ask them lots of questions. Let them know that the more they tell, the less time the project will take.
• If you (1) chose a client that you knew you can help and (2) followed these tips, you will never have anyone leave unsatisfied.

Repeat Clients and Referrals:

• If you do your job well enough, many clients have jobs lined up for you already and will simply give them to you and say "I need a yes or a no".
• Ask for feedback on Upwork. Yes, ask for it. And don't end the contract. They will end it for you.
• Tell them a line like this: "If you need any similar projects, let me know. I also offer x for $y (where y is a higher price than what they paid for the current project) I'm available in the near future, but I can't say for sure if I'll be available for long".
• Also, put referrals in their mind. Tell them something like this: "If you have a friend or relative who needs x, let them know about me."
• Talk to them regularly. Ask how their projects are going. Give them well wishes every so often. You won't even need to tell them you're available or ask them for referrals, because you'll stay in their mind.

And remember: this is the FASTLANE Forum. Don't think of freelancing as the end all be all! You want to do this to make more money, improve sales skills, and start a REAL business! Even if it's a small one like local lead gen or Amazon. And that's not the end all be all, either! Focus on improving and go bigger every year.

And if you STILL haven't started, http://upwork.com is right here, waiting for you to be clicked So do it NOW!

Thank you for typing this up, really appreciate it!

You have samples of your cover letters on here? I would love to read one.

 

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[The Grind]

Also, what have you guys done that made you a BETTER copywriter/writer.

Don't say "write more"

Experience doesnt always mean you will actually improve your skill.

My grandfather has been playing golf for over a decade, guess what, he still sucks.

I've read a lot of copy written by people who have only been doing it a few months or so, or people just starting, it's quite brutal the things people write, it reads as if it was written by a 14 year old.

I think my copy sucks write now.

What's an effective course /training /strategy / you guys have used that actually made a difference in the QUALITY of your copy?

Thanks.

 

[brewster]

Also, what have you guys done that made you a BETTER copywriter/writer.

Don't say "write more"

Experience doesnt always mean you will actually improve your skill.

My grandfather has been playing golf for over a decade, guess what, he still sucks.

I've read a lot of copy written by people who have only been doing it a few months or so, or people just starting, it's quite brutal the things people write, it reads as if it was written by a 14 year old.

I think my copy sucks write now.

What's an effective course /training /strategy / you guys have used that actually made a difference in the QUALITY of your copy?

Thanks.

Read an hour every day out of the top copywriting books out there. Make sure you take notes. Reading through each book once quickly then rereading and taking copious notes is a good way to learn the info.

Instead of typing up the notes, if you write them out on a 3x5 card, it will be easier to access and there's something about writing it out on paper that makes it "stick" more.

A few of my favorites are:

• The Robert Collier Letter Book
• How to Write a Good Avertisement
• The Entrepreneur's Guide to Getting Your Shit Together
• Scientific Advertising

And there are many more good ones out there... you just have to search a bit.

Also, start building a swipe file and copy ads longhand (only the top copywriters out there: Bencivenga, Halbert, Carlton, etc.) half an hour every day.

Read this article to see why copying the work of others is so good:

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2014/03/26/want-to-become-a-better-writer-copy-the-work-of-others/

When you do enough copying, you begin to understand and see the principles behind the writing. Over time, things will start to "click" and you'll begin to understand what makes a piece so good.

And then, you have to put all that theory and copying into work by writing your own ads.

From what I've read, the best copywriters in the world will sometimes edit their ads up to 20 times. The magic is in the rewriting.

The first draft can look like shit--and it doesn't matter. What matters is what you do after with the editing.

 

[brewster]

I also want to mention, if anyone is on the fence on whether they should dive in and start learning copywriting and do freelancing... I would recommend it wholeheartedly.

Even if your plan isn't to do this long-term (like me), it's still a GREAT way to learn marketing, how to be a more effective communicator, what it takes to make an ad actually work, etc.

If you get serious and start applying yourself... even just three months of freelance copywriting can be amazing for learning the fundamentals of what makes marketing and ad-writing work.

It will--guaranteed--pay off in dividends for your own fastlane biz down the road.

What are you waiting for? Get started now!

 

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[freelancedev]

Is it possible to do this with very little direct experience in copywriting? I've read a few copywriting books (including cashvertising) and also have 2 years experience in online marketing (failing to make money, although that won't be mentioned) and a degree in a semi-related field. If I take the approach outlined in the first post, how likely am I to succeed in the sea of other competing freelancers?

Would love to do this full time while working on a fastlane biz.

 

[brewster]

Is it possible to do this with very little direct experience in copywriting? I've read a few copywriting books (including cashvertising) and also have 2 years experience in online marketing (failing to make money, although that won't be mentioned) and a degree in a semi-related field. If I take the approach outlined in the first post, how likely am I to succeed in the sea of other competing freelancers?

Would love to do this full time while working on a fastlane biz.

Honestly, what you put in is what you'll get out. If you're gonna do it... then you have to buckle in and commit to the process. This applies to any endeavor you want to be successful at in life.

If you haven't already, check out The One Thing by Gary Keller. Combine the principles you learn in that book (I have the audio version) with copywriting and all the helpful information @SinisterLex has provided in this thread, and do something every day.

Right now, I'm currently the most productive focusing on my "one thing" by committing to a time block of four hours. At 7am every morning (you can choose your time, but I suggest the morning when your brain and willpower are freshest), I set the timer for 33 minutes (Eugene Schwartz method), once the time is up, I take a 5 minute break. And don't underestimate this 5 minute break. It is a game-changer for staying fresh and focused.

I repeat this six times and I usually finish up around 11am.

If you do that every day--and commit to it--there's no question in my mind you can be successful.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Is it possible to do this with very little direct experience in copywriting? I've read a few copywriting books (including cashvertising) and also have 2 years experience in online marketing (failing to make money, although that won't be mentioned) and a degree in a semi-related field. If I take the approach outlined in the first post, how likely am I to succeed in the sea of other competing freelancers?

Would love to do this full time while working on a fastlane biz.

Is it possible for you to do this with very little direct experience in copywriting? I dunno.

Is it possible? Clearly.

How likely are you to succeed over others?

Less likely than the guys submitting applications right now.

I took a senior exec at Coca-Cola as a client last night.

Didn't have any copywriting experience when I started.

The difference between you starting out and me starting out?

I didn't ask about my chances of success. I took action and commanded it.

There's a lot of copywriters out there. There's more clients.

 

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[The Grind]

Is it possible for you to do this with very little direct experience in copywriting? I dunno.

Is it possible? Clearly.

How likely are you to succeed over others?

Less likely than the guys submitting applications right now.

I took a senior exec at Coca-Cola as a client last night.

Didn't have any copywriting experience when I started.

The difference between you starting out and me starting out?

I didn't ask about my chances of success. I took action and commanded it.

There's a lot of copywriters out there. There's more clients.

Your writing copy for coca cola now....?

 

[The-J]

What's an effective course /training /strategy / you guys have used that actually made a difference in the QUALITY of your copy?

Shifting my focus from my goals to their goals.

I stopped thinking about 'how can I sell this/how can I convince them' and started thinking about 'what do they want and how can I tell them that I can give it to them'.

"It's THAT easy?"

It's that SIMPLE.

Copy isn't about strategies, courses, or training. It's about communicating value that can be understood, internalized, and actionable.

Although this is the closest thing to a strategy guide I've found.

Full Disclosure: I'm moving away from copy to sell bigger things. I have zero interest in becoming a career copywriter, a career developer, or whatever. Just because my rate is $67/hr today doesn't mean I want to trade time for money at that rate for the rest of my life. Increase your expectations.

 

[The Grind]

Shifting my focus from my goals to their goals.

I stopped thinking about 'how can I sell this/how can I convince them' and started thinking about 'what do they want and how can I tell them that I can give it to them'.

"It's THAT easy?"

It's that SIMPLE.

Copy isn't about strategies, courses, or training. It's about communicating value that can be understood, internalized, and actionable.

Although this is the closest thing to a strategy guide I've found.

Full Disclosure: I'm moving away from copy to sell bigger things. I have zero interest in becoming a career copywriter, a career developer, or whatever. Just because my rate is $67/hr today doesn't mean I want to trade time for money at that rate for the rest of my life. Increase your expectations.

Shifting my focus from my goals to their goals.

I stopped thinking about 'how can I sell this/how can I convince them' and started thinking about 'what do they want and how can I tell them that I can give it to them'.

"It's THAT easy?"

It's that SIMPLE.

Copy isn't about strategies, courses, or training. It's about communicating value that can be understood, internalized, and actionable.

Although this is the closest thing to a strategy guide I've found.

Full Disclosure: I'm moving away from copy to sell bigger things. I have zero interest in becoming a career copywriter, a career developer, or whatever. Just because my rate is $67/hr today doesn't mean I want to trade time for money at that rate for the rest of my life. Increase your expectations.

Okay let me be more specific

I completely understand what your saying.

Lex has done a good job explaining to us that we need to focus on what they want and not what we want.

Explaining, writing in a way that tells the client that WE can give them what they want, is the skill.

You can focus on the client all day long but if your ACTUALY WRITING sucks and you sound like a 12 year old, your not getting hired.

Focus on the client, yes yes good good we all know that.

But as far as the actual copy goes. The way it flows, the way it influences, like I asked before, any training / courses of quality that will help tremendously with improving your writing?

 

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[The-J]

But as far as the actual copy goes. The way it flows, the way it influences, like I asked before, any training / courses of quality that will help tremendously with improving your writing?

No idea. I only read CA$HVERTISING and read (not hand-copied) the Gary Halbert letters. They were pretty good.

I kinda just copied other people's styles until I found one that worked for me. I only really tested the efficacy of my copy by writing cover letters.

If you're concerned about your fundamental writing ability, it might pay to take a course on persuasive writing at your local college... I guess.

I can't help there.

 

[The Grind]

No idea. I only read CA$HVERTISING and read (not hand-copied) the Gary Halbert letters. They were pretty good.

I kinda just copied other people's styles until I found one that worked for me. I only really tested the efficacy of my copy by writing cover letters.

If you're concerned about your fundamental writing ability, it might pay to take a course on persuasive writing at your local college... I guess.

I can't help there.

Hmm persuasive writing you say...

At a college though? Ehh...

 

[J_Lock]

Warning. This Story Starts with Failure.

A few weeks ago I pulled back from publishing (progress on the Inside.). It was eating days, draining funds and not really progressing. That’s not the focus of this post, so I’ll just say I scaled back to unplug and regroup.

I kind of felt it coming, but it wasn’t until @tafy asked me where I wanted to be in 5 years that I had to face a harsh reality. A publishing company isn’t in my plan. It sucks because I already dumped thousands of hours & dollars into it. But it is what it is. (It's not dead. Just not moving.)

Now What? Guess I’ll Freelance.

I’ll spare you the details, and cut to the chase. Tafy suggested writing copy to build funds so I can try again. So I headed out on my next great adventure and signed up on Odesk. No profile, no feedback, no hours billed. That was exactly 3 weeks ago.

Here’s my earnings this week.

View attachment 9213

That's around $1,000 and I've pre-sold for another $2,000ish before 1 month is over.

Wondering How? I'll Show You.

It starts with a mindset. A mindset you can read all about in @IceCreamKid 's thread here. It's funny, but I actually didn't stumble on his thread until after I started writing copy.

The mindset (for me) goes like this:

1. I will never give up, no matter how F*cking stupid I think I look every time I fail.
2. I will acknowledge my failure, learn from it, and move on.
3. I may hate the feedback others give, but I'll consider it no matter what.
4. I will strive my hardest every damn day to solve problems and create value.
5. I will learn to accept others for who they are, even when I think I hate their guts. (Still working on this one.)

How This Translates to Money on Odesk (or anywhere).

If you Google, "How long does it take to get hired on Odesk?" you'll hit pages of people whining about how it's been months and they haven't had a job.

You'll see stuff like this:

- "Why won't anyone hire me?"
- "I have all the skills the job asks for, wtf?"
- "I've done this for 20 years, have a Masters degree, but clients won't even reply..."
- "I've filled out my profile, taken tons of tests, and sent out 50 applications. Nothing."
- "I've listed every skill under the sun. I can do them all. Why can't I get work?"

The thing is, all the skills and experience in the world don't matter if the client reads me me me me me me.

My guess is 99% of freelancers send me focused applications. So, for those who send a you focused application the opportunities are limitless.

How to Send a You Focused Application when You don't Know Anything About the Client.

This part is super easy, but you can't be lazy. All you have to do is read their job listing. Everything you need to know is right there on the screen. Look for the company name. If it's there, look them up. Find out what they do. Find out who their customer is. Don't just solve the company's problem. Solve the company's customer's problems.

Show how your skills (AKA product features) benefit them first.

Example: (client wants a new web site to increase traffic.)

Bad = "I have 10 years experience designing webpages. I have a Masters degree in web design. Hire me."

Good = "Sounds like you need a design that increases site traffic. Cool, I can build an eye-popping site that makes customer navigation simple, and increases traffic 50% guaranteed. Oh, and I have 10 years of experience and a Masters to back it up.

Clients don't care about your degree, and they don't care about your experience. They care about what they care about, and if you don't show em' you care about the same, then you're not getting shit.

It's Not a Trick. It's a Lifestyle.

Focus on their problems. Focus on giving. Focus on solving. Forget about money. When they say "give first and money follows" they actually mean that shit. I know it seems hard to believe, but I swear to god it's true.

I get it... Freelance and jobs aren't exactly Fastlane, and I'm not rich either. But I'm willing to bet everything on the fact this same lesson applies no matter what business you're in. If you need money to start your real business, or if you're just starting out, or even if you've been grinding for a long time...check your focus.

It's changing everything for me.

I bet it will for you too.

Thank you Lex! i was suspicious of sites like these until this post.
Created my account and waiting for approval then il start applying the advice you and others have provided.
A bit of hard-work and i'm off this dead end sidewalk!

 

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[mosdef]

i know you guys already mentioned it couple of times in the thread already but to be on the sure side. Many of you started with no experience?

like me i have 0% experience in copy but pretty intrested in starting doing this as a side income. Should i just start to learn some copy and just jump right into it?

It feels strange to start taking money even it small amount helping people with copy when i know shit about it

 

[Member]

I need some advice for applying to jobs where the client is asking for a fixed payment based on # of words, but they don't say the total number of articles they want written.

How am I supposed to fill out the payment section of my proposal? It asks for me to put in a fixed price for the whole project, but I can't do that without more information on the scope of the project.

I have just be putting whatever they specify in their budget and then being specific in my proposal that pay-per-word is fine with me.

Is this correct? I haven't gotten hired yet.

 

[Member]

i know you guys already mentioned it couple of times in the thread already but to be on the sure side. Many of you started with no experience?

like me i have 0% experience in copy but pretty intrested in starting doing this as a side income. Should i just start to learn some copy and just jump right into it?

It feels strange to start taking money even it small amount helping people with copy when i know shit about it

I have studied copywriting, but I haven't done any of it professionally. I am looking at every type of writing job. Hopefully I'll be able to transition my way into higher paying copywriting jobs after I get my feet wet with things like article writing.

I haven't gotten hired yet, but there are many in this thread who have.

 

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[J_Lock]

I need some advice for applying to jobs where the client is asking for a fixed payment based on # of words, but they don't say the total number of articles they want written.

How am I supposed to fill out the payment section of my proposal? It asks for me to put in a fixed price for the whole project, but I can't do that without more information on the scope of the project.

I have just be putting whatever they specify in their budget and then being specific in my proposal that pay-per-word is fine with me.

Is this correct? I haven't gotten hired yet.

Yeah your on the right track.

Just fill out everything like you would normally and you should be prompted by a warning that explains it is a fixed price job and not hourly. for those jobs im not sure it matters what you put in your hourly proposal as it is all pre agreed payment.

 

[Member]

Yeah your on the right track.

Just fill out everything like you would normally and you should be prompted by a warning that explains it is a fixed price job and not hourly. for those jobs im not sure it matters what you put in your hourly proposal as it is all pre agreed payment.

The jobs aren't asking for my hourly rate, but the fixed price for the entire project. These jobs are posted as a fixed price job, but they specify in the description that they pay by the word. I have no idea what to put if they don't estimate the number of articles they are going to need.

 

[Lex DeVille]

The jobs aren't asking for my hourly rate, but the fixed price for the entire project. These jobs are posted as a fixed price job, but they specify in the description that they pay by the word. I have no idea what to put if they don't estimate the number of articles they are going to need.

"These jobs" is a vague statement. It sounds like you applied to one job, and got frustrated.

There are 3 options.

1. Ask them how much they pay per word, and accept their rate.

2. Make an offer they can't refuse.

3. Apply to gigs with clearer terms & people who are easier to work with.

Don't ask how much an offer they can't refuse is. Do research.

When you get the job, you'll know you figured it out.

 

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[Member]

"These jobs" is a vague statement. It sounds like you applied to one job, and got frustrated.

There are 3 options.

1. Ask them how much they pay per word, and accept their rate.

2. Make an offer they can't refuse.

3. Apply to gigs with clearer terms & people who are easier to work with.

Don't ask how much an offer they can't refuse is. Do research.

When you get the job, you'll know you figured it out.

Yes, this was after 1 job proposal, but I'm not frustrated. I just assumed this was a common issue considering a lot of the jobs I have looked at are fixed price, pay-per-word jobs. To be very clear some of these people already specify what they are willing to pay-per-word and I am more than willing to accept their terms. I just need to know what to put in my fixed-price box.

Here is an example:
https://www.upwork.com/jobs/Writers-Wanted-for-African-American-Online-Entertainment-Magazine_~017cfab055e45b39e0

Another confusing one is this:
https://www.upwork.com/jobs/Looking-for-high-quality-experience-Blogger-article-writer-for-long-term_~01385a86102b32d40e

In this one the client says "please submit offer per each post". Does this mean that I should submit a proposal for how much I would charge for a 300-500 word article? I could imagine that they could "reactivate" the proposal for each article.

In that case my fixed-price wouldn't be for the whole project, but for each individual article.

And this:
https://www.upwork.com/jobs/Article-Writing_~016a781fb9fc5b35ae

This is a confusion on my part with how the budget I enter effects the payment in the future. Does this get negotiated further if they select me? Is the budget the maximum payout? I got a notice that if my job were accepted some?/all? of the money I entered for the fixed-price would be put into escrow.

I'm fine working pay-per-word on ambiguously large projects or on fixed-price for precisely defined projects, but I want to make sure that I'm doing this correctly and I want to know how the fixed-price I enter effects things.

 

[Member]

I am not looking to figure out how much to charge. I am just confused by the upwork proposal system in these circumstances.

 

[J_Lock]

This is a confusion on my part with how the budget I enter effects the payment in the future. Does this get negotiated further if they select me? Is the budget the maximum payout? I got a notice that if my job were accepted some?/all? of the money I entered for the fixed-price would be put into escrow.

Perhaps the client is posting the initial job offer on Upwork and after interviewing/hiring the client will push future work to the freelancer on a one to one basis and not through Upwork.

It may be worth mentioning in your application, its possible the client has something already in mind but has neglected to specify in the job post?

Certainly is a bit of a head-scratch.

 

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[mosdef]

I have studied copywriting, but I haven't done any of it professionally. I am looking at every type of writing job. Hopefully I'll be able to transition my way into higher paying copywriting jobs after I get my feet wet with things like article writing.

I haven't gotten hired yet, but there are many in this thread who have.

how long have u been looking to get hired? How much are you taking per hour?

 

[MGMGFX]

I've been trying at this method for 5 days with no luck yet, but I've told myself I won't quit at this until I get a job. I'm actually doing this with graphic design and not copywriting I don't know if that makes a difference? But I've sent out 17 proposals in a span of 5 days with no reply and only 4 of them got declined which seems a bit strange, aren't all of them supposed to get declined?

Now this has got me thinking my "you focused" applications aren't good enough, Guess I'll have to switch things up and see what works.

 

[J_Lock]

Now this has got me thinking my "you focused" applications aren't good enough, Guess I'll have to switch things up and see what works.

I'm also trying with Graphic Design and have had no luck as of yet. I think its due to the fact that everyone has a different taste in designs, no matter how good your cover letter is, if the client doesn't like your designs then you wont get the job. Plus is seems everyone and their dog are graphic designers these days.

As the fishing is best where the fewest go, it seems to be time to find another pond.

 

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[Member]

I sent a help request to upwork with my questions and I'll repeat what they told me here.

Basically the fixed-budget refers to the cost of the entire project, and milestones are decided on where part of the fixed-budget will be released.

I can only assume for these types of jobs that the milestones will be either completing an article or completing a certain number of words.

It seems that only the money for the next milestone is put into escrow, so at this point I am going to just put whatever their budget is into the fixed-budget part of my proposal, and specify in the text what I would be comfortable with for the pay-per-word or pay-per-article.

 

[Member]

how long have u been looking to get hired? How much are you taking per hour?

I am very literally just starting to look. I submitted my first proposal and was confused by how to fill out certain parts of the form so I came here.

 

[Lex DeVille]

I am very literally just starting to look. I submitted my first proposal and was confused by how to fill out certain parts of the form so I came here.

Clients who pay by the word on Upwork typically look for inexpensive Freelancers. If I were just starting out and ran into this situation I'd look at every detail to get the info I need and decide if it's worth it.

Assuming I have no feedback / hours billed, my thought process would go something like this:

1. What's the Fixed-Price rate?
Combined with Step 2, this gives me an idea of the life-time value of the project (not the client).

2. What kind of job is it?
If it's a sales page, then it's a single page with a limited number of words.
If it's article writing then there'll be multiple articles with lots of words vs. value.

3. How interested am I in working on this project?
If I'm not willing to commit without more details then I probably need to skip this one.

4. (Assuming I'm Interested) What are other Freelancers billing?
How much am I willing to undercut them to get the job?
How much more can I charge to add perceived value without blowing it?

5. (No matter what my offer is...) How can I not get screwed here?
Once I get his attention, how do I make the deal better for my end?
Can I offer other payment options? Hourly Billing? Price Per Page instead of Per Word? Add-on Services?

6. (If I still want in) What does the description tell me about the client?
Does he say what the job is? What other details does he give me? How can I influence him?

7. Based on the description, client's feedback, client's history, & other Freelancer rates...
Where are the value gaps? How do I solve this guy's problem? Why does he need me?

8. (Once I get the interview) What questions do I need to ask this guy?
This is your time to ask questions / offer alternative payment options.
This is also your time to truly decide if you want the gig or if it's not a good match.
Never base it on the job alone. Also base it on whether or not you like the client.
If they annoy you from the start, then just move on.

That's pretty much it.

These days I don't care what the initial rate is. To me it doesn't matter one bit if it's fixed-price or hourly. Doesn't matter if it's $50 for a 3,000 word sales page or $5/hour to write product descriptions. If I like the company, and get a good vibe, then I apply, interview, upsell.

When you get good at it you only work on your terms.

All you have to do is solve their problems. All you have to do is prove your worth.

Do this and you'll win in the long-run even if the initial offer kinda sucks.

 

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[mosdef]

when you guys say start taking action and apply for jobs. This means i already know what copywriting is right? I cant just apply for jobs without knowing what im going to do for the client?

Started last night and half way into the scientific advertisment

 

[Lex DeVille]

when you guys say start taking action and apply for jobs. This means i already know what copywriting is right? I cant just apply for jobs without knowing what im going to do for the client?

Started last night and half way into the scientific advertisment

Yes. You can't solve problems or create value without some kind of skill.

I didn't have Copywriting experience when I started, but I did have a background in related areas that helped.

The purpose of this thread was never to get people interested in copywriting.

That's just what all the people looking for easy money jumped on.

The purpose was to show that when you apply the skills you have and think outside of the box you can create your own income.