Question about copywriting

[MakeMoreMoves]

So, I have been looking into copywriting and tons of examples of it. I just don't believe it to be honest. Do people actually fall for this stuff? I never actually knew what copywriting was until weeks ago. But now that I have read examples, I remember all the times that I have seen these examples. Also, those pages where it is single scrolling page or only a video on the page (where you can't press play or stop).And everytime I just pressed the back button or X button cause I just thought it was a scam immediately.

 

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[AndreHimself]

If copywriting is used in the right way to advertise quality products and services, it's perfectly ethical and moral.

"Advertising is only evil when it advertises evil things." -David Ogilvy

 

[Digamma]

So, I have been looking into copywriting and tons of examples of it. I just don't believe it to be honest. Do people actually fall for this stuff? I never actually knew what copywriting was until weeks ago. But now that I have read examples, I remember all the times that I have seen these examples. Also, those pages where it is single scrolling page or only a video on the page (where you can't press play or stop).And everytime I just pressed the back button or X button cause I just thought it was a scam immediately.

Yes, they work. And also, not necessarily a scam. It's just that you are simply too smart to fall for them - as testified by your world class accomplishments.

 

[wade1mil]

I don't think it's copyrighting that you don't believe in, it's the product the copyrighting is marketing. Apple uses copyrighting to sell their products, they just don't do it the same way as diet pill rebills and real estate seminars.

 

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[Polarbeans]

"Ogilvy believed headlines were so important that he viewed them as being worth 90% of the money invested in advertising.

We’ve seen e-mail subject lines where a one word change increased click-throughs by 46%.

Open rates were nearly identical and the e-mail creative was exactly the same for both versions, but click-throughs went up by 46% in the second. If the ad was sent to 2,000,000 e-mails, the winning version would lead to 17,000+ more clicks, all from changing a single word. That’s a measurable difference that significantly impacts the bottom line."

source: http://www.quicksprout.com/the-definitive-guide-to-copywriting-chapter-3/




What seems to you as the most appealing?

Give me $18,000 and I'll give you a new Caddy.

or

I'll Sell You This New Caddy For
$18,000 And I'll Let You Drive It
For A Week Free Before You Decide To
Buy It... Plus, You Don't Have To Pay
Me For It All At Once; You Can Pay Me
Over A Period Of Five Years!

source: http://www.thegaryhalbertletter.com/newsletters/zgkl_best_copywriter.htm

Copywriting can never (almost) outsmart a poor product. If your product is shit, the quality of your copywriting will not convert into sales, no matter what.

Contrary to what some think, you can't sell sand in Sahara...

But does copywriting works? Yes, god damn it works. And it works like a charm. Freaking, holy god mother of Odin it's the best way to increase sales.


Some awesome products never sell at all. Reason is because the company behind it failed to see how it could be sold and how to package it into a deliverable product.

Copywriting is packaging with words.

 

[Kevin Peter]

Copy writing is seen success, specially as the foundation of content marketing and inturn SEO. Attract visitors, convert more readers into customers method of inbound helps individuals manage the online presence. I feel the copy should not talk more about yourself, but clearly communicate the message of the whole scenario.

 

[Formless]

Different strokes for different customers.

Give me 30 minutes to talk to you and learn about you - and I will find you copy that will leave you foaming at the mouth and itching to burst open your wallet.

I will then find a 55 year old woman who will read the same copy and ask herself 'who even buys this crap?'

(That's not actually an offer, just a statement of certainty.)

 

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[Tyler Ellison]

Copywriting is just salesmanship in print. Salesmanship is persuasion. The fact that you or I aren't persuaded by a message simply means that we are not the target prospect.

One of the greatest salesmen ever was P.T. Barnum - does a bearded lady sound like something you want to see? No? You're not the target prospect because he loaded his side shows with sensationalistic salesmanship.

Copywriting is just the print/written form of that. Whether you use persuasion skills to get people to help themselves with products of value or simply con them into giving up money depends on the person that's selling, not the medium itself.

 

[wade1mil]

If your product is shit, the quality of your copywriting will not convert into sales, no matter what.

Highly disagree. Happens all the time.
http://jezebel.com/yes-cards-against-humanity-made-180-000-selling-boxes-1671540094

 

[MakeMoreMoves]

What seems to you as the most appealing?

Give me $18,000 and I'll give you a new Caddy.

or

I'll Sell You This New Caddy For
$18,000 And I'll Let You Drive It
For A Week Free Before You Decide To
Buy It... Plus, You Don't Have To Pay
Me For It All At Once; You Can Pay Me
Over A Period Of Five Years!

The latter sounds more appealing just because you added more information into it.

 

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[Mattie]

https://www.seekingmillionaire.com/blog/ditch-that-deadbeat/
I would say this type of copy writing is teaching women to be gold diggers.
This one I find kind of insulting to men.
https://www.seekingmillionaire.com/blog/millionaires-can-be-richly-diverse/

So, I have been looking into copywriting and tons of examples of it. I just don't believe it to be honest. Do people actually fall for this stuff? I never actually knew what copywriting was until weeks ago. But now that I have read examples, I remember all the times that I have seen these examples. Also, those pages where it is single scrolling page or only a video on the page (where you can't press play or stop).And everytime I just pressed the back button or X button cause I just thought it was a scam immediately.

I feel the same way, because in some sites and books I've read, I see how people are being manipulated by emotions and feelings, they will tell facts, but use psychology and seduction in some ways, and even manipulate the truth to some degree and leave things out.

There is some copy writing that doesn't bother me, but when it comes to people's relationships and finances, and life choices it does bother me. It's part of the equation I guess of getting sales and running a business.

 

[Leo Hendrix]

Its psychological, I'm pretty sure it works, it has worked for me in the past and helps when I retain the principles in my mind when approaching people etc.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Highly disagree. Happens all the time.

+100.

Copywriting can never (almost) outsmart a poor product. If your product is shit, the quality of your copywriting will not convert into sales, no matter what.

Totally disagree was well. People love to learn copyrighting because they know it can help sell a crappy product. What do you think most of the Internet Marketing circuit is all about? Slick copywriting to tickle your toes and fancy your wallet to pay $997 for something you can find for free.

 

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[Polarbeans]

Highly disagree. Happens all the time.
http://jezebel.com/yes-cards-against-humanity-made-180-000-selling-boxes-1671540094

@wade1mil @MJ DeMarco fair enough, but that's hardly an ethical way of selling anything.

Nobody in their right mind would fall for that.

Copywriting is not to be used as a tool to convey scammy products, not for me at least

 

[Stardust]

So, I have been looking into copywriting and tons of examples of it. I just don't believe it to be honest. Do people actually fall for this stuff? I never actually knew what copywriting was until weeks ago. But now that I have read examples, I remember all the times that I have seen these examples. Also, those pages where it is single scrolling page or only a video on the page (where you can't press play or stop).And everytime I just pressed the back button or X button cause I just thought it was a scam immediately.

I think you are turned off by some information marketers and their outrageous claims to make your life better. But that's not all there is to copywriting.

Copywriting is used to sell all kinds of products and I'm sure you've bought things in your life because the copy resonated with you. And I bet you didn't even know that the words that persuaded you were called copy.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

but that's hardly an ethical way of selling anything.

Uh, did I say it was ethical? It is what it is. People want to learn copy writing because they don't give a shit about their product. That just want to "print money" pushing worthless junk serving as product surrogates. If copywriting didn't work, we wouldn't see it used everywhere. And no, that's not the type of entrepreneur we want here as I've removed a few. *Cough cough*.

Anyhow, your signature says "Business is the art of extracting money from another man's pocket without resorting to violence." That sounds like the very thing we are talking about here, selling a bunch of crap through the art of slick words, fake testimonials, and fake website logos of news organizations to feign credibility. I'm not interesting in "extracting money from another man's pocket" unless I have something he values, and wants.

 

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[Polarbeans]

@MJ DeMarco no, I said that.

I don't understand why we are including "fishy" products in this argument in the first place.

And what's with the aggro? It seems as if you are accusing me of selling scams to make a few bucks. I go a very long way to provide my clients with extraordinary value and many people thank me for what I do.

Now, this is neither a discussion about me personally, nor is it about selling fishy products with slick copywriting.

I learnt copywriting because I'm interested in it as an art - I like writing and psychology.

Sinisterlex introduced me into copywriting and of course I learnt it because it will help me sell products. This ain't charity.

But I never said anything about selling scams. I use copywriting because it's necessary to increase my sales. But before I even think about a single line of copy, I make sure I have a product that is solid and I can feel proud of putting my name behind.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I'm not insinuating you are involved in shady stuff, my apologies if that's how it sounded.

I learnt copywriting because I'm interested in it as an art - I like writing and psychology.

As everyone here should. The challenge is when the tool is used for unethical purposes, which is more often than not.

The OP has obviously been burned.

 

[Mattie]

If copywriting didn't work, we wouldn't see it used everywhere. And no, that's not the type of entrepreneur we want here as I've removed a few. *Cough cough*.

Thank God! I feel better already! Now before I begin learning it, I just want to learn how to do it in a good way, cause I was having an issue with those types of websites, and articles.

 

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[Tyler Ellison]

@Mattie if you want to learn to write good advertising the right way, start by learning from the right people.

I'd consider some of those to be:
- Claude Hopkins
- Eugene Schwartz
- Gary Halbert
- John Carlton
- Dan Kennedy

I could be wrong, but I've never seen anything published by those guys to encourage anything unethical.

 

[The-J]

It's easy to use copywriting to sell a shitty product... if you do it unethically.

All you gotta do is LIE.

Promise benefits that aren't there, use testimonials that aren't real, and sell for a price that doesn't reflect the actual value of the product.

People do it all the time. Billions of dollars are wasted by poor schmucks every day that were promised heaven.

Part of success as an entrepreneur is training our 'bullshit' meter. If it smells like shit, it's probably shit. Learning copywriting is one way to strengthen your sense of smell, if you will.

Learning it forces you to read between the lines.

So to answer your question, do people fall for this stuff? Yes they do.

Many businesses take advantage of desperation and distress to sell their product and it shows in how they write.

Others take advantage of the desire to HAVE or the desire to BE. This, too, shows.

But WHY does this work?

This is because humans have two main routes of cognitive processing: peripheral and central. To simplify...

Central route processing involves ruminating and deliberating. HARD thinking. Running the numbers, taking TIME to decide, analyzing risk...

Most people don't think this way often and prefer to use it only when there's a lot of money or emotional investment on the line.

They instead use peripheral route processing, which involves quick thinking and takes advantages of biases, heuristics (ideas about things that are used in place of thinking), correlation (if this is true, then this must also be true), emotional state, and past experiences.

Certain words, certain formats, certain inferences and implications... they trigger ideas and decisions that will get them closer to a 'yes i'll buy'.

Expert copywriters can use these 'weird but simple tricks' to convince a prospect to sign on the dotted line.

By lying about the actual benefits AND using the power of peripheral thinking, a copywriter can successfully convince someone to fork over money that they'll never see again, for a product that will not help them.

Nobody can escape peripheral route processing. We all do it.

All we can do is LOOK OUT for these tricks, RESEARCH what people are saying, and be AWARE of how we can get our money back in case the product doesn't work.

And always read the fine print.

 

[Mattie]

I'd consider some of those to be:
- Claude Hopkins
- Eugene Schwartz
- Gary Halbert
- John Carlton
- Dan Kennedy

I could be wrong, but I've never seen anything published by those guys to encourage anything unethical.

Thank you Tyler for pointing me in the right direction. I appreciate the list and will check it out.

 

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[Kung Fu Steve]

The latter sounds more appealing just because you added more information into it.

A lot of people here have already regurgitated the usual definition "salesmanship in print" which is absolutely true. It's hard to make it more clear than that.

But I would take it a step further and say writing effective copy is about describing something in a way that everyone understands.

By saying "The latter sounds more appealing just because you added more information into it." You're on the right track -- that's a big part of it.

The question is how else would you present your product or service without some kind of copy? (Copy is just the words you use -- don't let the fancy name "copy" hook you one way or the other)

Sure, MOST copy you see is crap. Hypey crap. Such as:

"Now you TOO can become an instant millionaire OVERNIGHT by giving me your CREDIT CARD INFORMATION!!!"

But I would argue that's not true copy writing.

I just helped one of our fellow forum-members write the copy for a physical product that went on amazon.

Now his product *IS* actually superior to what's on Amazon now... but how do you describe that?

If you were standing in front of someone you could show them this feature and that feature and you can physically hold it in front of their face and say "see how this product rips in half easy? try ripping MY product in half! WAY more durable!"

But... online, on a website, in a magazine, a newspaper, you really don't have the ability to talk to someone like you were sitting across the table from them.

So you have a couple of options... written word (copy), audio (written copy recorded, i.e. radio), or video (written copy recorded, i.e. TV or YouTube ads)

No matter what you have to write the words that need to be said in order to describe what you're going to get, what it's going to do for you, and how you can get it... make sense?

Making copy work isn't really about making a "hypey" offer (unfortunately the people who believe this, like many have said already, have crappy products) -- it's about using words to make what you offer crystal clear.

The funny thing is the #1 reason people don't buy is because they don't understand what they are buying.

P.S. Anyone using amazing copy to sell crappy products should go to hell.

 

[Ronnie Bryan]

I'm not interesting in "extracting money from another man's pocket" unless I have something he values, and wants. Thank You, MJ, Good Copy-writing does work. I have found myself reaching in my wallet to buy course after course trying to master my business skills, to later see the same information given out free.I literally, burned through a couple thousand on theses courses. Because, the copy-writing was that good.

 

[ClaytonAlbright]

The funny thing is the #1 reason people don't buy is because they don't understand what they are buying.

Other than the obvious that they just absolutely don't want or need a product (although even that can go out the window such as shady cold calls to retiree's with dementia) this seems very true.

Just today I was browsing Amazon for edgers. I want to put some edging in my lawn and watched a few youtube videos and one of them recommended making sure you get one that's sharp. I have hard GA. red clay soil so I kept that advice in mind but couldn't find any sharp ones at the local home depot or lowes. After browsing Amazon I found different kinds, some that you can stomp on in the middle and others on the side, with the supposed benifit of the middle is better for the center of gravity (which I found this in the REVIEWS section, not in the description).

Anyway long story short I had a hard time understanding the supposed benefits of the different types. The one thing I was looking for, a sharp edge, apparently isn't standard 'due to safety concerns' (again from the REVIEWS section) so I didn't end up buying any of them, and just decided I may as well get the one at home depot and buy something to sharpen it with.

Most of the product descriptions just went on and on about how great the quality was when nothing really explained the benefits as to why it's actually better than the next one even though the prices varied greatly.

 

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[Kung Fu Steve]

Anyway long story short I had a hard time understanding the supposed benefits of the different types. The one thing I was looking for, a sharp edge, apparently isn't standard 'due to safety concerns' (again from the REVIEWS section) so I didn't end up buying any of them, and just decided I may as well get the one at home depot and buy something to sharpen it with.

Most of the product descriptions just went on and on about how great the quality was when nothing really explained the benefits as to why it's actually better than the next one even though the prices varied greatly.

Brilliant example. It's so damn frustrating shopping for something wondering if that's the actual thing you want/need.

P.S.

Totally agree on don't want/need. I would bet though there's many times where people don't know they want/need that thing.

"Look at our high quality stainless steel appliances!"
"No thanks..."

... some days later...

"I'm so sick of washing these dishes."
"Why don't you buy a dishwasher?"
"Wait -- THERE'S A MACHINE THAT DOES THIS FOR ME!?"

Silly example but you get it. Try buying a freaking dustpan that works right. So freaking frustrating!

P.P.S.

Most copy writers agree on the 3 reasons people don't buy from you:

1. they don't need/want it (you're obviously talking to the wrong people)
2. they don't like/trust/believe you (they need proof)
3. they don't have the money (they would find the money if they believed you)

P.P.P.S.

So most of the scammy copy-writers just try to trick you into believing them.

Fine line there I guess from a good guy trying to convince you and a bad guy trying to convince you.

The morality of marketing... fun stuff.