Lex DeVille's: How to Make $1,000 a Week with no Degree, no Feedback, & no Portfolio.

[BigBrianC]

What are good starting rates? I dont have any experience or any kind of degree, so I set $8/hour to get my first few but I feel thats hurting me as people see me as too cheap

 

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[ThunderbirdMike]

Set it at $15.

And don't talk about lack of degree or experience.

As Lex and others have already stated here:

WRITE YOUR COVER LETTER AND PROFILE SHOWCASING YOUR COPY. SELL YOURSELF.

Here is the best starting resource out there. http://www.copyblogger.com/copywriting-101/

Read it, and start implementing immediately. Don't get caught in over-analysis. You'll learn by doing.

Good luck!

 

[BigBrianC]

I read it and alot from him, and I dont mention anything about it but I have nothing to put for "prior experience". Thanks, Ill raise it up to $15

 

[Thomas1980]

SUCCESS UPDATE:

Using what I've learned here (and my existing copywriting skills), I landed a solid client from Odesk.

I had set my rates WAY low initially @ $15 / hr, just to get my first reviews.

Once I gave him a test run with solid copy (@ $15/ hr to build trust) that he was satisfied with, he inquired about my project rates for longer term.

Long story short, I quickly wrote up a "rate sheet," and got the following prices, without the client batting an eyelash:

• $75 per email I write ($60 for under 300 words).
• Hourly rate of $60. Including: client calls, research, revisions and any client communication (external) that I need to do.

Pretty pleased. All it takes is delivering good work, and CONFIDENCE to charge more.

The good clients will want to pay for value, and predictability. Make sure you give it to them.

That's all for now,

Mike

Good sh*t man - Keep up the good work

 

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[masterneme]

Hello, I'm new here.

Awesome thread, I read it before signing up and now that I'm member I just read it again.

I also joined oDesk and Elance, I'm finishing my profiles and tomorrow I'll start contacting people.

I won't go the copywriting route, I'm offering my 3D modeling and bot developing services.

What I found funny is that I've gone through months struggling finding clients for these services and now in these sites I have more work opportunities that I could have ever imagined.

In some way I'm glad that I had difficulties because it forced me to step up my game and everything led me here.

I don't know the forum inner workings or policies yet, so I want to know if it's OK to share my progress here too.

 

[Rinzler]

I just wanted to add that after reading this thread last week, I decided to revamp my cover letter and resume, utilizing the techniques shared throughout the thread. Today, I received a call for an interview working for the State of California for a position I've been applying to for about a month now.

With my old resume and cover letter I never got anything but rejection letters. With my application package containing a "You" based resume and "You" based cover letter, I got a call back in just one week! Sure, I haven't landed the position just yet, but the point is realizing that once you start offering value to others, doors really start to open!

Thank you so much @SinisterLex and to other members that contributed to this thread!
If I could do it, anyone can!

 

[Lex DeVille]

I just wanted to add that after reading this thread last week, I decided to revamp my cover letter and resume, utilizing the techniques shared throughout the thread. Today, I received a call for an interview working for the State of California for a position I've been applying to for about a month now.

With my old resume and cover letter I never got anything but rejection letters. With my application package containing a "You" based resume and "You" based cover letter, I got a call back in just one week! Sure, I haven't landed the position just yet, but the point is realizing that once you start offering value to others, doors really start to open!

Thank you so much @SinisterLex and to other members that contributed to this thread!
If I could do it, anyone can!

That's great!

This may be the key to bringing your Fastlane goals to life!

Pro tip for your interview:

Assume you've got the job before you ever leave your house and you'll interview with a way more powerful mindset.

Just imagine the ways you can fuel your Fastlane success once you have real income funding your ventures!

Smile, shoulders back, chin up, create value, ask questions & ask when they want you to start. All with confidence.

This pattern landed me 20 or 30 jobs over the last 5 years. It works for Skype interviews too.

You got this.

 

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[Rinzler]

That's great!

This may be the key to bringing your Fastlane goals to life!

Pro tip for your interview:

Assume you've got the job before you ever leave your house and you'll interview with a way more powerful mindset.

Just imagine the ways you can fuel your Fastlane success once you have real income funding your ventures!

Smile, shoulders back, chin up, create value, ask questions & ask when they want you to start. All with confidence.

This pattern landed me 20 or 30 jobs over the last 5 years. It works for Skype interviews too.

You got this.

Thank you again!! I'm definitely going to keep my Fastlane in mind to give me that added boost in confidence. Landing this position will give me a major head start. Come Tuesday morning, I'm going to do my best to show I am there for them.

 

[Disciple]

Just wanted everyone to know thatI'll be moving and won't be back for quite some time until internet gets set back up.

I'll definitely stick around once I get back.

 

[David Fiddler]

I just wanted to add that after reading this thread last week, I decided to revamp my cover letter and resume, utilizing the techniques shared throughout the thread. Today, I received a call for an interview working for the State of California for a position I've been applying to for about a month now.

With my old resume and cover letter I never got anything but rejection letters. With my application package containing a "You" based resume and "You" based cover letter, I got a call back in just one week! Sure, I haven't landed the position just yet, but the point is realizing that once you start offering value to others, doors really start to open!

Thank you so much @SinisterLex and to other members that contributed to this thread!
If I could do it, anyone can!

Congratulations dude! I completely get how it can be advantageous to write a you-based cover letter. But how about the resume?
How did you make it you-focused without kicking up the standard format? It's not the same as applying for oDesk jobs or is it?

 

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[Rinzler]

Congratulations dude! I completely get how it can be advantageous to write a you-based cover letter. But how about the resume?
How did you make it you-focused without kicking up the standard format? It's not the same as applying for oDesk jobs or is it?

My resume used to just jump right into my work experience, then towards the bottom I listed a few additional skills relevant to the position I'm applying for, then a brief sentence at the very bottom. What I ended up doing was scrapping the lower half of the resume, and above my work experience I created a category "Performance Capabilities" then listed a few examples of what my skills can do for them.

Here's an example
"My career focused mindset guarantees I will consistently go above and beyond to meet your requirements and excel at providing quality service."
or
"My proficiency in (insert software here) ensures your (Insert tasks) are completed in a timely, efficient manner."

So right off the gate, I'm listing the things I can provide for them, based off what they're asking for! I listed 4 of these, then I dive into my work experience, which compliments what I had listed, without seeming redundant.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Need 1 person to take over a starter gig writing short blog posts.

Anyone ready to take the first step?

pm me

 

[BaladOfARichMan]

Hi I have a question, yesterday I set up my profile on oDesk following your advice. I submitted it for review and today I woke up with this answer:

Please revise your overview. In general, your overview should use complete sentences and clearly describe your skills and/or expertise. The skills noted should be related to your title.

This was the overview I submitted:

Do you want a rock-star looking website?
I can help you make your visitors stay way more time by creating an eye-popping landing page that will finally make them take action!

I'm an WordPress expert that has recently joined oDesk so for the first 15 days I'll keep my rate low since I have no reputation on here. I'll maintain that rate forever for those first clients.

P.S: You don't have to believe my word. I'm a huge fan of show results first, ask you compensation later. You'll have a 100% personal money-back guarantee that extends beyond odesk if your not happy about my work
.

Instead, they suggest this type of overview full of "I's".

So what do you think, @SinisterLex ?

 

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[David Fiddler]

Hi I have a question, yesterday I set up my profile on oDesk following your advice. I submitted it for review and today I woke up with this answer:


This was the overview I submitted:


Instead, they suggest this type of overview full of "I's".



So what do you think, @SinisterLex ?

This happened to me before. Make sure your job title is an actual job (like web developer expert or something like that) and fill out your whole profile in a way that will make the mods understand what do you do. Don't use jargon like landing page, they don't know what that is. Say website. Be more concrete on what you do and it should be okay.

The sample profile is more like a guide-line really.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Hi I have a question, yesterday I set up my profile on oDesk following your advice. I submitted it for review and today I woke up with this answer:


This was the overview I submitted:


Instead, they suggest this type of overview full of "I's".

So what do you think, @SinisterLex ?

Give them what they want for now.

When you pass review, then write it how you want.

They don't review your updates.

 

[BaladOfARichMan]

This happened to me before. Make sure your job title is an actual job (like web developer expert or something like that) and fill out your whole profile in a way that will make the mods understand what do you do. Don't use jargon like landing page, they don't know what that is. Say website. Be more concrete on what you do and it should be okay.

The sample profile is more like a guide-line really.

Give them what they want for now.

When you pass review, then write it how you want.

They don't review your updates.

Alright thanks both. I'll do that.

 

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[masterneme]

OK, I decided to apply a trick I read.

I'm drawing quick 3D sketches with something similar to what the client wants and uploading them to my portfolio.

Then I'm sending my proposal with a link to the screenshot and another one to where the model is located.

I'm trying to write in a self-less manner, well, in fact I've the tendency to ask a lot of questions about the project.

I'll tell you what happens.

 

[SlowlaneJay]

@SinisterLex
First of all, thanks for this thread. Was the inspiration I needed to quit f*cking around and make a move.

Since starting, I've been getting gigs consistently and working my tail off. I'm nowhere close to $1000 a week, but I'm getting better each day.

My question is: what now? How does someone go from no-longer-a-beginner to crazy awesome?

I'm not too concerned about earning $1000 a week (or whatever). But I don't quite know how to judge my own copy and know for a fact that it's better today than it was yesterday. How do I awesomize my skills?

I've read the Gary Halbert Challenge books. I've hand copied the sales letters. I'm getting real world experience. What's next? When I google it everything is geared towards getting started. Now that I've started, how do I become great?

Cheers,
J.

 

[Lex DeVille]

My question is: what now? How does someone go from no-longer-a-beginner to crazy awesome?

First ask yourself, what does crazy awesome mean to me?

If you're not worrying about getting to $1,000 a week, then how are you judging your development?

When you answer the first question with crystal clarity, then you have a clearly defined outcome.

When you have a clearly defined outcome, then you know exactly what your end goal is.

When you know what your end goal is, then you only need to figure out what steps are in between where you are now, and where you want to be, and start taking them.

So, what does crazy awesome mean to me?

What steps do I need to take to achieve it?

What step do I take next?

What am I working on right now?

All of these are questions that will help you achieve what you want, but nobody else can really define that for you.

I mean... I could tell you to study influence & persuasion for 10 years, but depending on your goal, it may not be what you need at all.

 

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[SlowlaneJay]

but nobody else can really define that for you.

You're right. I think I'm just pissed off at this current plateau and foolishly hoping someone else can help me push past it. Stupid.

Looks like I need to define my end goal with my writing. Then figure out the first step to getting there. Sounds obvious, but for whatever reason I was getting a grump on trying to figure out where to take this next.

Thanks mate. And again, muchos kudos for this thread and what you're doing for the community here. Rep+

Cheers,
J.

 

[The Grind]

Some feedback on the whole ODesk thing.

Did my first interview via skype, text, not video.

She explained what she was looking for, Im still confused on what she needed exactly. I asked a few questions. She wanted me to write something on the spot.

I said copy takes time essentially.

She said she liked that I said it takes time. But she wasnt looking for copy I guess, she wanted these fake petitions written, I said I can have one done by tomorrow night, she said she wanted all 10 done by tomorrow night. I said not ganna happen.

She then started to offer me a different job, writing a news article. After talking about that I said I dont think im the person to write news.

She then said "Sigh, so what CAN you write."

I just said "copy".

That was it basically.

I get the impression people want to hire freelancers to start a job right then and there and have it done hours later, even if it's a big job.

Also, that people don't know what copy is. They dont know it takes a long time to write it. They dont know what goes into it.

Now, I have literally 0 confidence in my writing, never written anything before, no results. Nothing. I just study copy, thats it.

Did I talk myself out of work? Maybe idk. Thoughts flooded my mind with "what if I write these petitions, hand them in and then get yelled at because they suck and they werent what she wanted? What if she gave me a terrible review that completely ruins my whole profile?"

 

[SlowlaneJay]

@SinisterLex is online. And because he's kinda like the coolest guy ever, I'm sure he's putting together something great for you to read right now!

While he puts together a killer post, here's my two pennies:


How are you defining copy?

Someone who writes copy, is essentially someone who writes text in a commercial setting. Fake petitions, news articles, email newsletters… that's all copy. So when you told her you won't take on her assignment because you only write, "copy," she was probably wondering what you were talking about.

In your shoes, I would have said, "sure, I loved to write the news piece," and then Google, "how to write a good news piece."

Sounds like you don't want to write copy, you just want to write sales letters.

If that's the case, why not take this open job:

Sales letters. Right up your alley!

Yeah OK, the pay is miserable. But so are your competition. (One gentleman only has four words on his overview, "To learn and excel...".)

Plus, look at that beauty of a deadline: 3 days, mate! Surely you can put together 1200 words a day and help this client out.

Snag this job, and you'll have work history, feedback (glowing, of course), and a little walking-around money. Not too shabby. Then you can go bid for a job with a higher dollar per word (this job looks like $0.016/word, which is the high end of the low end on oDesk).

Anyway. Rep+ for your tenacity and for refusing to give up.

 

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[Lex DeVille]

Some feedback on the whole ODesk thing.

Did my first interview via skype, text, not video.

She explained what she was looking for, Im still confused on what she needed exactly. I asked a few questions. She wanted me to write something on the spot.

I said copy takes time essentially.

She said she liked that I said it takes time. But she wasnt looking for copy I guess, she wanted these fake petitions written, I said I can have one done by tomorrow night, she said she wanted all 10 done by tomorrow night. I said not ganna happen.

She then started to offer me a different job, writing a news article. After talking about that I said I dont think im the person to write news.

She then said "Sigh, so what CAN you write."

I just said "copy".

That was it basically.

I get the impression people want to hire freelancers to start a job right then and there and have it done hours later, even if it's a big job.

Also, that people don't know what copy is. They dont know it takes a long time to write it. They dont know what goes into it.

Now, I have literally 0 confidence in my writing, never written anything before, no results. Nothing. I just study copy, thats it.

Did I talk myself out of work? Maybe idk. Thoughts flooded my mind with "what if I write these petitions, hand them in and then get yelled at because they suck and they werent what she wanted? What if she gave me a terrible review that completely ruins my whole profile?"

To me copywriting is anything with the intent to sell. Since virtually any interaction we have with another human being is to sell something, whether it be our product, our views, or ourselves, then just about anything we write can be considered copy.

When I'm not sure what a client wants, there's 2 questions I usually ask to gain clarity:

- What is the purpose of this project?
- What is the #1 thing that needs to happen?

When you have the answer to these 2 questions, then you know a lot about your client's goals, and about how to approach the content.

If a gig starts to feel like content writing vs. copywriting, then I might say something like this:

This sounds like a content writing project. Do you need someone to write content, or someone to write something that increases your sales? I ask because there's a difference and if you just need content, then it will be far more cost effective to hire a content writer. If that's the case, then I totally understand and won't waste any more of your time so you can get back to interviewing others.

This kills several birds with one stone.

- First it establishes that there's a difference between content & copywriting.
- Second it establishes that copywriting costs more, and indirectly suggests that they'll need to pay you more.
- Third it lets them know there's no hard feelings if you're not a good fit for each other.
- Fourth it establishes you as a professional because you educated them.
- Fifth it establishes you as a person of power, by suggesting that they might not be able to afford your services.

Even if you're not established as a copywriter, a statement like that has the power to get you off the hook if you're not interested in their gig, (but then why did you apply in the first place?). It also has the power to secure the gig, and potentially increase your pay.

If they ask for more info on the difference between content writing & copywriting, then you can explain so they understand. Once they understand, then they'll either hire you and let you work at your own pace, or they won't and you both go on your way.

Since you're just starting out, probably the best thing you can do is ask a lot of questions until the client gives you very specific details about exactly what she needs. Even if you're not that good at writing copy that sells, you can still write copy that satisfies (the client) by understanding her needs.

Even if they don't leave good feedback, it's not the end of the world.

One of my very first gigs I got a negative feedback. I completed the project on time and to the client's standard, but I didn't want to move forward with further gigs, and based on the fact that I didn't want to continue working for him, he left negative feedback.

So, I contacted him, and asked him what I did wrong that caused him to leave less than perfect feedback. I reminded him of exactly the job I performed, and that it was a test project to see if we were a good fit for each other. I explained that I was new to Odesk, and that I wasn't sure I was the best fit for his project moving forward. Then I offered his money back 100% and asked if he would just consider upgrading my feedback. I also told him I would, of course, leave 5 star feedback for him.

The result...

He was so impressed that I didn't disappear, offered his money back, and offered 5 stars even when he virtually screwed me, that he immediately changed my feedback to 5 stars, said he didn't want the money back, and thanked me for being one of the best freelancers he's ever met... Not only that, but he even left a glowing review.

Copywriting isn't just writing sales copy. It's writing to influence people to do things and to take specific actions. Even a content writing job can meet this purpose, and if you don't accept it based on your definition of copy, then you won't move forward at all.

If I were in your shoes, I would tell the client, "Sure, I can do that, no problem." Then do it, get good feedback, and explain how you can make the next project 10 times better if they give you time to do it right.

If you use every gig as an an opportunity to increase your skills, learn, and influence, then you'll grow, and you have the potential to become better than everyone else who doesn't because they're afraid they might fail.

 

[masterneme]

Some feedback on the whole ODesk thing.

Did my first interview via skype, text, not video.

She explained what she was looking for, Im still confused on what she needed exactly. I asked a few questions. She wanted me to write something on the spot.

I said copy takes time essentially.

She said she liked that I said it takes time. But she wasnt looking for copy I guess, she wanted these fake petitions written, I said I can have one done by tomorrow night, she said she wanted all 10 done by tomorrow night. I said not ganna happen.

She then started to offer me a different job, writing a news article. After talking about that I said I dont think im the person to write news.

She then said "Sigh, so what CAN you write."

I just said "copy".

That was it basically.

I get the impression people want to hire freelancers to start a job right then and there and have it done hours later, even if it's a big job.

Also, that people don't know what copy is. They dont know it takes a long time to write it. They dont know what goes into it.

Now, I have literally 0 confidence in my writing, never written anything before, no results. Nothing. I just study copy, thats it.

Did I talk myself out of work? Maybe idk. Thoughts flooded my mind with "what if I write these petitions, hand them in and then get yelled at because they suck and they werent what she wanted? What if she gave me a terrible review that completely ruins my whole profile?"

What that woman did goes against oDesk's rules.

Imagine that I interview a bunch of people and ask them to write me stuff right on the spot like she did.

I'd have work done for free.

I think you did the right thing, just move on and keep going.

 

[Lex DeVille]

What that woman did goes against oDesk's rules.

Imagine that I interview a bunch of people and ask them to write me stuff right on the spot like she did.

I'd have work done for free.

I think you did the right thing, just move on and keep going.

I don't think it's against Odesk's rules to ask for proof of your ability to perform a job to standard.

I do think if you aren't willing to do work for free to prove what you can do, then you aren't willing to do whatever it takes to get the gig.

In which case you probably aren't right for the gig anyway, and you probably aren't really in it to help the other person.

The very same reason you would move on, is also the reason people like me are crushing it and taking all the high-paying clients.

 

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[masterneme]

I agree that you must be willing to provide results in advance to prove your skill, I just don't think this was the case, but I don't know the complete story so...

 

[masterneme]

Hey guys, I'm so excited I couldn't wait to tell you I got my first job, I'm so pumped up!

Well, that was it, now back to work

 

[The Grind]

@SinisterLex is online. And because he's kinda like the coolest guy ever, I'm sure he's putting together something great for you to read right now!

While he puts together a killer post, here's my two pennies:


How are you defining copy?

Someone who writes copy, is essentially someone who writes text in a commercial setting. Fake petitions, news articles, email newsletters… that's all copy. So when you told her you won't take on her assignment because you only write, "copy," she was probably wondering what you were talking about.

In your shoes, I would have said, "sure, I loved to write the news piece," and then Google, "how to write a good news piece."

Sounds like you don't want to write copy, you just want to write sales letters.

If that's the case, why not take this open job:

Sales letters. Right up your alley!

Yeah OK, the pay is miserable. But so are your competition. (One gentleman only has four words on his overview, "To learn and excel...".)

Plus, look at that beauty of a deadline: 3 days, mate! Surely you can put together 1200 words a day and help this client out.

Snag this job, and you'll have work history, feedback (glowing, of course), and a little walking-around money. Not too shabby. Then you can go bid for a job with a higher dollar per word (this job looks like $0.016/word, which is the high end of the low end on oDesk).

Anyway. Rep+ for your tenacity and for refusing to give up.

I define copy as in "words that influence and persuade someone to take a specific action." If thats not what copy is then I must be out of my mind.

I asked her what was the outcome she wanted from the petitions, she couldnt even tell me. She didn't want an outcome.

Thats content, news. Not copy. Right?

 

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[SlowlaneJay]

I define copy as in "words that influence and persuade someone to take a specific action." If thats not what copy is then I must be out of my mind.

I asked her what was the outcome she wanted from the petitions, she couldnt even tell me. She didn't want an outcome.

Thats content, news. Not copy. Right?

Sure. If that's how you define it.

But if she is willing to pay you money for it, I'd bet just as much of my own money that she wants to influence her audience in some way. When you say petition, do you mean a letter asking people to sign on the bottom line? Or asking someone to stop/start doing something? Those sound like specific actions to me.

That said, my point wasn't to discuss the semantics of copywriting. Define it however you'd like. My point is that however you're defining it, it doesn't really matter. Here's why:

You are not a copywriter.

Please, I hope I don't come across as an a**hole here. But an Engineering student is not an engineer. He may have studied his a$$ off and have perfect grades, but he's not an engineer. It's not until he heads out into the world, gets hired, and builds his first bridge that he becomes an engineer.

You are not a copywriter.

You are not a copywriter because you haven't written any copy.

Again, I really hope I'm not offending you. I have a mountain of respect for you for your determination and persistence. But if you want to be an engineer, you need to build something.

Take a job. Any writing job. Anything that says "Writer needed for blah blah blah" just do it, get it done, move on.

Take another one. Knock it out of the park. Put it on your oDesk profile. Move on.

Then, when you have a job or two under your belt, you can afford to be a bit pickier. Only take jobs that interest you, or are just sales letters, or are for charities and non-profits, whatever. But right now, as Lex said, just give them what they want.

—

As an aside, please don't take any of this as high-and-mighty advice. I'm (by my own admission) not a great writer. However, I am a writer. I'm a writer because I get paid to write.

 

[The Grind]

Sure. If that's how you define it.

But if she is willing to pay you money for it, I'd bet just as much of my own money that she wants to influence her audience in some way. When you say petition, do you mean a letter asking people to sign on the bottom line? Or asking someone to stop/start doing something? Those sound like specific actions to me.

That said, my point wasn't to discuss the semantics of copywriting. Define it however you'd like. My point is that however you're defining it, it doesn't really matter. Here's why:

You are not a copywriter.

Please, I hope I don't come across as an a**hole here. But an Engineering student is not an engineer. He may have studied his a$$ off and have perfect grades, but he's not an engineer. It's not until he heads out into the world, gets hired, and builds his first bridge that he becomes an engineer.

You are not a copywriter.

You are not a copywriter because you haven't written any copy.

Again, I really hope I'm not offending you. I have a mountain of respect for you for your determination and persistence. But if you want to be an engineer, you need to build something.

Take a job. Any writing job. Anything that says "Writer needed for blah blah blah" just do it, get it done, move on.

Take another one. Knock it out of the park. Put it on your oDesk profile. Move on.

Then, when you have a job or two under your belt, you can afford to be a bit pickier. Only take jobs that interest you, or are just sales letters, or are for charities and non-profits, whatever. But right now, as Lex said, just give them what they want.

—

As an aside, please don't take any of this as high-and-mighty advice. I'm (by my own admission) not a great writer. However, I am a writer. I'm a writer because I get paid to write.

What do you think I've been trying to do?
I'm not offended at all.
I've been Trying to get hired this entire time. Applying to only copy jobs, writing ones as well. I've gotten 3 writing jobs so far. All 3 5 star rated feedback.
I'm not being picky. Anything that I feel I can do a good job at, I apply. It's been over 2 months I've gotten 3 jobs so far. That's not good.