Lex DeVille's: How to Make $1,000 a Week with no Degree, no Feedback, & no Portfolio.

[ThunderbirdMike]

Hey Lex & Fast Laners,

So I've got my first TWO copywriting clients via Odesk. BOOM!

Of course, keeping rates cheap while I overdeliver and aim for 5 star reviews. The clients seem to love that.

Now, I submitted a quick SOP / client questionnaire about his needs, in order to get a better idea of how I could help.

Here are some of the things he wants my help with:

• Research on his clients. Including me directly communicating with them.
• Managing all deliverables
• Perhaps moving into helping to "package" online marketing services - SEO keyword research, Copy, sales pages, email campaigns.

This is seeming like much more of a "consulting" role, which I have done in the past plenty of times. This could mean it turns into a more lucrative and mutually-beneficial relationship, long term.

Now, what about communications? I want to establish good communication AND boundaries...i.e. not be available 24/7, obviously.

So, question is:

How often do you like to "meet" or get on a Skype chat with your clients, once you're working with them?

Thanks guys!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[The Grind]

Couple questions for ya Lex.

You'v states you spend a while on each application, back in the day when you HAD to apply for gigs =P

I find myself spending no more than 5 minutes on an application. I make it about them, but still.

How much do you type in each box if there's multiple boxes?

Also, If a client wants sample so you don't have any, what do you suggest?

Thanks.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Hey Lex & Fast Laners,

So I've got my first TWO copywriting clients via Odesk. BOOM!

Of course, keeping rates cheap while I overdeliver and aim for 5 star reviews. The clients seem to love that.

Now, I submitted a quick SOP / client questionnaire about his needs, in order to get a better idea of how I could help.

Here are some of the things he wants my help with:

• Research on his clients. Including me directly communicating with them.
• Managing all deliverables
• Perhaps moving into helping to "package" online marketing services - SEO keyword research, Copy, sales pages, email campaigns.

This is seeming like much more of a "consulting" role, which I have done in the past plenty of times. This could mean it turns into a more lucrative and mutually-beneficial relationship, long term.

Now, what about communications? I want to establish good communication AND boundaries...i.e. not be available 24/7, obviously.

So, question is:

How often do you like to "meet" or get on a Skype chat with your clients, once you're working with them?

Thanks guys!

I was meeting with people whenever they wanted, but that became a problem because clients didn't realize I was working with more than one company.

Now I let them know up front in an off-hand / casual way that I bill for Skype consults once the contract is underway. This is fair because any time you're chatting with them, it takes time from other projects you can be working on.

Something like:

"By the way," or "Just for transparency, I bill for Skype calls once on contract, but not for email..."

Or, if you wanna try something a little more hypnotic, say this:

"Now that we've started the contract, do you prefer Odesk, or Email for communicating?"

This eliminates Skype as a choice and still lets them feel in control because they get to choose, but in reality, you're in control the whole time.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Couple questions for ya Lex.

You'v states you spend a while on each application, back in the day when you HAD to apply for gigs =P

I find myself spending no more than 5 minutes on an application. I make it about them, but still.

How much do you type in each box if there's multiple boxes?

Also, If a client wants sample so you don't have any, what do you suggest?

Thanks.

The reason I spend an hour or 2 is because my application IS a sample of my copy.

If there's multiple boxes, I type in as much as I need to clearly & thoroughly answer their questions.

Your application is a sales letter for yourself, and if you can't sell yourself, they won't buy your copy.

You don't need samples from actual clients to have samples.

Just write copy for imaginary products. As long as it's good it will work just as well.

You can also offer to do a sample job for them for free so they get a taste for your style.

Nobody will deny that, and it gives you a chance to over-deliver and build rapport.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Leo Hendrix]

Thanks a lot! @SinisterLex
I have come across O desk before and I think I applied for some jobs but never got them...anyway that was years ago...
That thread from IceCream kid is pure gold, I started learning Copywriting right after reading that...yet to complete 'learning' copywriting as I have been very busy but the mindset shift has already led me to positive results.
Now when I see Odesk, I see a lot of potential for money-making, which is not that the forefront of my mind but I can just feel the potential.
You sharing your success on there is no less than inspiring.
Sign up link via Linked in keeps crashing due to shockwave...I hope to share my success on there soon too!
Share the love and Ice Cream!!! hehe

 

[ThunderbirdMike]

DORMANT JOB POSTINGS:

Lex & FLF crew,

What's a good rule of thumb for the client "last viewed" status on job postings?

Example:

If client hasn't visited or interacted with the posting for 15 days or more, is it a good idea to move on and target "fresher" postings?

Or, am I missing something? Did you apply the "shotgun" method and just hit anything and everything when just starting out?

Cheers Lex!

Your fan (haha)

Mike

 

[The Grind]

I'm having a lot of trouble getting my first copy gig.

I'll write a fake letter for a sample I could give them.

But they look for experience. When they ask for your experience, I don't have anything to give them of course because I've never worked as one.

Also, if they want a skype interview, that's even worse. They will definitely ask in person what my experience is, I'd have to say I've never worked as one before, trying to get my first job as one.

Besides a "hire me and if you don't like the work, I'll refund you". Any other things you guys have done to get the first job?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Lex DeVille]

DORMANT JOB POSTINGS:

Lex & FLF crew,

What's a good rule of thumb for the client "last viewed" status on job postings?

Example:

If client hasn't visited or interacted with the posting for 15 days or more, is it a good idea to move on and target "fresher" postings?

Or, am I missing something? Did you apply the "shotgun" method and just hit anything and everything when just starting out?

Cheers Lex!

Your fan (haha)

Mike

I'd stick with those that are less than a week old.

Longer than that and they usually aren't interested in hiring any more.

That's been my experience anyway.

I'm having a lot of trouble getting my first copy gig.

I'll write a fake letter for a sample I could give them.

But they look for experience. When they ask for your experience, I don't have anything to give them of course because I've never worked as one.

Also, if they want a skype interview, that's even worse. They will definitely ask in person what my experience is, I'd have to say I've never worked as one before, trying to get my first job as one.

Besides a "hire me and if you don't like the work, I'll refund you". Any other things you guys have done to get the first job?

Honestly... I could give you all the advice in the world, but right now you're caught up in excuse mode.

The thing is...

If you can't solve their problems then you don't get the gig.

There's no clearer way to put it.

If you lack experience, then spend time training and practicing.

I never said you should lie to a client about having experience.

If you can't clearly show how you can help the client, then you can't... and that means no gig.

So, you either need to train more, or apply to lower paying jobs until you get more experience.

I suggest taking small content writing gigs like blog posts, or writing ebooks.

This is the exact reason I said from the start that this thread isn't about copywriting.

This thread was to show you that if you create value by solving problems, then you can make money.

By the way, your lack of experience isn't actually the problem.

Your mindset is.

 

[The Grind]

I think I understand what your saying about not focusing on copy and focusing on whether or not you can solve their problem.

But i'm still applying for a job that I have not worked yet. "I've never worked as a copywriter but I've been training everyday for it". Doesn't appeal to employers. They would just hire one of the dozen other people applying who has worked as one before. How can I possibly know if I can help them, solve their problem, if I've never done the type of job before. I've done a content writing and ebook job so far. But they have nothing to do with copy.

It's similar to "how can I get my first credit card without any credit, and you need good credit to get one".

 

[Lex DeVille]

I think I understand what your saying about not focusing on copy and focusing on whether or not you can solve their problem.

But i'm still applying for a job that I have not worked yet. "I've never worked as a copywriter but I've been training everyday for it". Doesn't appeal to employers. They would just hire one of the dozen other people applying who has worked as one before. How can I possibly know if I can help them, solve their problem, if I've never done the type of job before. I've done a content writing and ebook job so far. But they have nothing to do with copy.

It's similar to "how can I get my first credit card without any credit, and you need good credit to get one".

I see what you're saying, but let me ask you this...

What if you didn't didn't say "I've been training every day for it."

Training is experience.

Or, what if you went to town and wrote copy for local companies for free?

Wouldn't that qualify as experience?

Or, what if you straight up offer to write your client's first gig for free?

Would they say no?

If you want to be an entrepreneur, then you gotta start figuring shit like this out...

As a copywriter you MUST be able to sell stuff that has no proof or history.

What do you think every client you write for wants you to do?

Most of the products you'll write copy for haven't been tested in the market.

If they already had proven results, then they wouldn't need copy to sell...

Ask yourself this...

1. "What specific kind of copywriting gig do I want?"
2. "What specific experience do I need to get that kind of gig?"
3. "What training do I need?"
4. "What's the very next step I must take?"
5. "Why am I still asking questions instead of taking the next step right now?"

Saying clients won't hire you because of your experience is like saying McDonalds won't hire you without experience... Maybe that's the story you tell yourself, but it's not true.

There are 3 answers to your problem in this post.

But, you already knew those answers.

Here are your choices:

1. Take action & keep adjusting til something works
2. Do nothing & make excuses

One leads to money. The other doesn't. It's that simple.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[GuestUser113]

I'm having a lot of trouble getting my first copy gig.

I'll write a fake letter for a sample I could give them.

But they look for experience. When they ask for your experience, I don't have anything to give them of course because I've never worked as one.

Also, if they want a skype interview, that's even worse. They will definitely ask in person what my experience is, I'd have to say I've never worked as one before, trying to get my first job as one.

Besides a "hire me and if you don't like the work, I'll refund you". Any other things you guys have done to get the first job?

Your greatest purpose is to bring greater value, or greater benefit, or greater to people, or to cause something to happen that is significant.
Jay Abraham

 

[The Grind]

Thought I'd post a warning of what NOT to do.

Been trying to get a copy gig for selfish reasons, simply to make money.

Applied to jobs where I didn't fully understand the job.

Convinced a guy to let me do a job and if he doesn't like it, he just won't pay for it.

But I don't even understand what he wants, I can tell the job is straight forward to someone who knows what they're doing, but thats not me.

So now I have to research to find out how to even do the job first before I even start.

Moral: Don't apply for a job you aren't fully capable to delivering and helping your client. @SinisterLex already told us, here's your evidence.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Thought I'd post a warning of what NOT to do.

Been trying to get a copy gig for selfish reasons, simply to make money.

Applied to jobs where I didn't fully understand the job.

Convinced a guy to let me do a job and if he doesn't like it, he just won't pay for it.

But I don't even understand what he wants, I can tell the job is straight forward to someone who knows what they're doing, but thats not me.

So now I have to research to find out how to even do the job first before I even start.

Moral: Don't apply for a job you aren't fully capable to delivering and helping your client. @SinisterLex already told us, here's your evidence.

You're on the right track. If you can't solve someone's problems at all, then you shouldn't apply, but, if you find yourself in that situation, (and is seems like you have) then you might as well make the best of it.

This is a great opportunity for you to grow in both your skills and confidence, if you acknowledge & accept it.

You'll have to do some research, but that's okay.

Just because you haven't done what he's asking, doesn't mean you can't deliver.

The hardest part is over once you have the job.

Now just make something for him, and do your very best. He'll let you know if it's not what he wants. Then just ask more questions to help get clarity.

The fundamentals of copywriting remain mostly the same even when the specific type of copy changes. For instance, the same influential techniques that apply to sales letters also apply to About pages. So, if you already understand the fundamentals, then you just need to fill in the blanks with the style he needs.

Then follow up with specific questions like:

- What is the #1 thing you want your copy to achieve?
- Which parts of the copy would you like changed?
- Is there anything else you'd like added that hasn't been delivered?

These questions let you know what's important to him, what he doesn't like, and what he would add.

Always keep in mind that you're writing to influence his prospects, but do your best to give him what he wants at the same time.

Repeat this process until he's either satisfied completely, or asks for a refund (which he probably won't).

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[The Grind]

The guy just told me "by the way your competition just delivered me a piece within an hour".

How the hell can you write 600 words of copy within an hour....

 

[Lex DeVille]

By writing copy that sucks.

Last week I wrote an emergency video script in an hour.

It was 1 minute long.

It took every second of that hour, and it wasn't to my standard, but that's what the client needed.

That's 60 seconds of script, or approximately 100 words, so I'd call BS on 600 words in an hour unless it's just basic content.

600 persuasive words in an hour... not a chance. That's why high earning copywriters earn so much.

Creative influence takes time.

 

[Thomas1980]

I see what you're saying, but let me ask you this...

What if you didn't didn't say "I've been training every day for it."

Training is experience.

Or, what if you went to town and wrote copy for local companies for free?

Wouldn't that qualify as experience?

Or, what if you straight up offer to write your client's first gig for free?

Would they say no?

If you want to be an entrepreneur, then you gotta start figuring shit like this out...

As a copywriter you MUST be able to sell stuff that has no proof or history.

What do you think every client you write for wants you to do?

Most of the products you'll write copy for haven't been tested in the market.

If they already had proven results, then they wouldn't need copy to sell...

Ask yourself this...

1. "What specific kind of copywriting gig do I want?"
2. "What specific experience do I need to get that kind of gig?"
3. "What training do I need?"
4. "What's the very next step I must take?"
5. "Why am I still asking questions instead of taking the next step right now?"

Saying clients won't hire you because of your experience is like saying McDonalds won't hire you without experience... Maybe that's the story you tell yourself, but it's not true.

There are 3 answers to your problem in this post.

But, you already knew those answers.

Here are your choices:

1. Take action & keep adjusting til something works
2. Do nothing & make excuses

One leads to money. The other doesn't. It's that simple.

The guy just told me "by the way your competition just delivered me a piece within an hour".

How the hell can you write 600 words of copy within an hour....

Yeah like

The guy just told me "by the way your competition just delivered me a piece within an hour".

How the hell can you write 600 words of copy within an hour....

That was lame of him to say that.

Just do your best dude..

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[ThunderbirdMike]

Any client that says

"your competition did X in an hour," sounds like a dick, to be honest. I've let old clients go if they behaved like that. It rarely gets better in the relationship if that's how it starts.

He sees you as a commodity, basically. He's making you dance and jump through hoops to get the cheapest price possible.

And, as Lex said...He'll get copy that just plain SUCKS.

Still proud of you for getting outside your comfort zone, however.

Congrats!

Get the experience, deliver as best you can, and move on.

 

[The Grind]

Guess I'll keep applying for jobs.

I need to get better at applying though, fast.

Your only given x amount of connects now. 2 per application, once your out, you have to wait until next month, I believe.

 

[Thomas1980]

Guess I'll keep applying for jobs.

I need to get better at applying though, fast.

Your only given x amount of connects now. 2 per application, once your out, you have to wait until next month, I believe.

Oh wow, I didn't realize you had to wait a month. I guess I'll need to slow down my process!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[The Grind]

Oh wow, I didn't realize you had to wait a month. I guess I'll need to slow down my process!

Just read the rules again to confirm. Yes 60 connects per month. So 30 job applications a month. Make them count right.

 

[SlowlaneJay]

I need to get better at applying though, fast.

What does your profile copy look like?

The oDesk rules for writing a profile are a lot like the pirate code:
"More of a guideline really."

They tell you to keep it short and focus on you.

But that's bullshit.

Your profile copy should be so compelling that clients can't resist clicking the "read more" button.

Because if you think about it, how you write your profile copy tells your clients exactly how
you'll write their projects. And if it's flat, boring and uninteresting, how can you expect them to hire you?

Now I'm not saying you have a lame profile, I can't know that. But you should really be seeing
more success if you're working this hard. I can only assume you're being let down by a less than stellar profile.

Also, admitting, "I've never worked as a copywriter but I've been training everyday for it," in your cover letter? Why?!

Your clients are going to hire you to write about products you've never used, that you have very little knowledge of, and
that you may never have heard of. What's more, they expect you to sell the shit out of them!

So why are you afraid to sell yourself?

Don't tell them you're training every day, tell them "I'm a copywriter. And a damn good one too. I speak English, I'm crazy
fast, and I respect your deadlines. I don't cost you money, I make you money."

That's marketing.

Make a strong, bold promise— then over deliver when you fulfill it.

This whole thing is about empathy. Put yourself in your client's shoes. They aren't interested
in the apprentice copywriter. They're looking for the-best-goddamn-copywriter-the-world-has-ever-seen.

So sell them that.

(Oh, and that guy who told you your "competition" just completed an assignment in an hour? Complete tool.)

 

[Disciple]

Just read the rules again to confirm. Yes 60 connects per month. So 30 job applications a month. Make them count right.

Most I've seen are two connects, but they go up to 5, I believe.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Thomas1980]

Curious if anyone has created a video to go with their profile? I'm thinking about it..

Why not - it allows me to step out of my comfort zone and get a lil creative

 

[Lex DeVille]

Curious if anyone has created a video to go with their profile? I'm thinking about it..

Why not - it allows me to step out of my comfort zone and get a lil creative

Funny you mention it, that's actually on my to-do list for today.

It's a great way to set yourself apart on several levels.

1. Most freelancers don't do it.

2. It helps humanize you instead of being seen as a robot.

3. It gives you a chance to engage the client, & build rapport indirectly. (try before you buy)

 

[Thomas1980]

Funny you mention it, that's actually on my to-do list for today.

It's a great way to set yourself apart on several levels.

1. Most freelancers don't do it.

2. It helps humanize you instead of being seen as a robot.

3. It gives you a chance to engage the client, & build rapport indirectly. (try before you buy)

This actually makes me feel even better about my decision. Gonna head to the park and knock out a script.

Should be fun!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[BigBrianC]

I had an odesk account as a programmer, but never took any jobs because I didn't feel like I was qualified. Working on my landing page, I feel like I have a natural talent at copywriting, and after reading some books, articles, etc. I updated my odesk profile to be a copywriter rather than a programmer. Going to start applying to jobs! I plan on doing this and working on my app at the same time, to use money from this to my app. I also am going to need a new car soon (I have a 94 Honda Accord, 286k miles on it.........) and hopefully I can make a few thousand bucks over a few months (even that sounds unreal to me) so here we go. Took action.

EDIT: It's funny, I almost said "After soccer season is over and I have more free time, I'll start applying to jobs." Then I thought, no. I'm not going to wait. I have plenty of time I can make if I really want it, so do I want it? I applied for 2 jobs just now. I'll wait until I hear back from them to apply to more because I don't want to be overloaded. It just goes to show, if you want it, go take it. Don't make excuses.

 

[fastlanebeast876]

Found it! This was the article my friend sent me about making money onlne. Thanks for writin about odesk! If not, i probably wouldn't be on this site

 

[Thomas1980]

Funny you mention it, that's actually on my to-do list for today.

It's a great way to set yourself apart on several levels.

1. Most freelancers don't do it.

2. It helps humanize you instead of being seen as a robot.

3. It gives you a chance to engage the client, & build rapport indirectly. (try before you buy)

Did you get a chance to make your video? If so, how'd it turn out?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Lex DeVille]

Did you get a chance to make your video? If so, how'd it turn out?

Yeah I made one. It wasn't the worst I've done. I winged it. Should have scripted it for a more powerful effect.

Still, I'd say it's better than 99% of other freelancer videos.

Was gonna re-shoot today, but accidentally knocked my audiobox off the desk and now my Mic isn't working.

Gotta fix it quick. Had to do a Skype call today and had no way of speaking without text!

 

[ThunderbirdMike]

SUCCESS UPDATE:

Using what I've learned here (and my existing copywriting skills), I landed a solid client from Odesk.

I had set my rates WAY low initially @ $15 / hr, just to get my first reviews.

Once I gave him a test run with solid copy (@ $15/ hr to build trust) that he was satisfied with, he inquired about my project rates for longer term.

Long story short, I quickly wrote up a "rate sheet," and got the following prices, without the client batting an eyelash:

• $75 per email I write ($60 for under 300 words).
• Hourly rate of $60. Including: client calls, research, revisions and any client communication (external) that I need to do.

Pretty pleased. All it takes is delivering good work, and CONFIDENCE to charge more.

The good clients will want to pay for value, and predictability. Make sure you give it to them.

That's all for now,

Mike