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Preserving Wealth, My #1 Tip. Don't Get Married! (Or Maybe You Should?)

Esquire

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P.S. I have no powers ... as far as marrying people goes ... so Esquire ... is AVAILABLE!

I can show up dressed like a priest ... rabbi ... pastor ... your choice!

I even have an Elvis outfit in my closet ... if that's her Vegas fantasy.

Call Now!
 
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Luffy

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Those who're in a successful marriage or would not have any risks with it(like Vigilante and women) would be for marriage or be eager to get in one. If something is going well, you don't want to keep hearing of how it could go wrong and if you want to silence your own doubts you'll need to push your convictions on whoever is affirming them. People who've not yet married and have an interest in self preservation will obviously not like marriage and will make an effort to stay away from it. The only rationalization for marriage in the west is trust which is no different from gambling where the odds are against you and the stakes are your future life and happiness. To summarize, what I'm saying is this topic is pointless because any decision we make regarding marriage will be based of our personal values, it's a matter of what means more to you, that said I think everyone should know the risks beforehand, the information is therefore relevant but the back and forth debate so far is not.
 

DreamsCameTrue

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Esq., I came into this as one of your biggest fans. However, this thread has gone off the rails. Your last couple quotes have been ridiculous, over the top and spawned by your own poor experience. Your relationship with your live-in is 100% distinguishable from other relationships, namely my own. Your past scars and hurts betray you. In the interest of maintaining a respectful relationship with you, this will be my last post in this thread that I can't continue to watch. I have respect for your legal analysis, respect for you as a person and a contributor to this forum, but your viewpoints on relationships as seen through the lens of your legal practice are warped. Aspects of this thread with regard to the legal mitigation have been healthy. Other aspects of this thread with regard to disparagement of traditional values are disgusting. In the interest of harmony and not prolonging the life of this thread, I'm out.


What I'm getting from this response is "since you have a different opinion than me, I don't respect you anymore."
It's pretty odd to see that kind of an attitude from someone who's supposed to be a neutral moderator.

Also, I don't see how this thread is off the rails. It's a great thread with good points being made by both sides. I'll even overlook the fact that the pro-marriage crowd is super defensive and makes lots of personal attacks.

Esquire's posts are pure gold, as he is able to explain the legal side of this.

Remember, this was supposed to be about ASSET PROTECTION. We are here to talk about making money, and then keeping the money.

Avoiding marriage and divorce is a great form of asset protection.
 

DreamsCameTrue

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Those who're in a successful marriage or would not have any risks with it(like Vigilante and women) would be for marriage or be eager to get in one. If something is going well, you don't want to keep hearing of how it could go wrong and if you want to silence your own doubts you'll need to push your convictions on whoever is affirming them. People who've not yet married and have an interest in self preservation will obviously not like marriage and will make an effort to stay away from it. The only rationalization for marriage in the west is trust which is no different from gambling where the odds are against you and the stakes are your future life and happiness. To summarize, what I'm saying is this topic is pointless because any decision we make regarding marriage will be based of our personal values, it's a matter of what means more to you, that said I think everyone should know the risks beforehand, the information is therefore relevant but the back and forth debate so far is not.


This thread is super useful to the silent readers who may not be aware of what kinds of financial risks they are taking on if they get married. That is the purpose of this thread.

The debate? Hmmm you might have a point that it's not that useful.

As far as whether divorce can clean you out financially, there's really no debate to be had there. Everyone, even the pro marriage crowd, seems willing to acknowledge this. The debate seems to be whether it's worth the risk or not.

The short answer is YES it's totally worth the risk as long as you don't get divorced :)
And no it's not worth the risk at all if you end up losing lots of money to divorce lawyers.

A girl I know in Texas told me her parent's divorce had been going on for 3 years already and the legal fees were $600,000 so far. It's not over yet, so the grand total is not yet known.

What would you say to this girl, who's having a large % of her family's wealth wiped out by the lawyers and the system?

And again, what would you say to the man in the Divorce Corp video who took out a loan against his parents house and lost $250K in his divorce, all in legal fees. 250K might not sound like much to you, but that's 2 generations of his family's wealth, and his parents' retirement money.

How is this acceptable?
 
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DreamsCameTrue

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Somewhere out there, right now, there is a reader who is going to make 10 million or more in 2017. Whoever he or she is, he or she will know that your exposing yourself to massive legal and financial risks of you get married or if you have a live in boyfriend or girlfriend in a common law marriage state.

I hope that person takes all the info in this thread into account when making their decision.

Because of this thread, lots of people can make a more informed decision and maybe, just maybe, save themselves 5 or 10 million.


Also, I think it's everyone's duty to spread the word about the grave injustices going on in the legal system. Stop these divorce lawyers and corrupt judges from destroying American families. They are making themselves rich at the expense of honest hard working people and destroying the fabric of our society.

If you're still preaching the merits of marriage, and turning a blind eye to the massive extortion that's going on, you're part of the problem.
 

Esquire

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A girl I know in Texas told me her parent's divorce had been going on for 3 years already and the legal fees were $600,000 so far. It's not over yet, so the grand total is not yet known.

Well ... that is all fine and good ... but the dress looked great ... and the cake was to die for.

So who knows ... maybe it was worth it.

Sounds like a good gamble to me.
 

Esquire

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24gqfs5.jpg


Here's another way of looking at it ...

Marriage is all fine and fun ... until it isn't.

Like Christopher Reeves on his horse.

Rolled the dice ... and lost.

That's why I prefer the horse on the right.

Fun ... safe ... and plenty romantic.

Chicks love merry go rounds.

As M.J. explained in his book ... there are risks ... and there are extreme risks.

Manage the first ... avoid the latter.

If your goal is asset protection ... marriage is a one-sided train wreck.

Extreme risk. Minimal offsetting benefit.

And that is my whole point.

Spin the chambers if you want to. It's your life to live.

But 50% of you reading this post ... including 50% of those condemning me on this thread ... are going to reflect back one day and say ... F*ck ... I wish I listened to Esquire.

Statistical fact.

The only upside to all of this is ... I am a divorce lawyer ... so I suppose I am the indirect beneficiary of all this.

Getting a divorce ...? Better Call Z!
 
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DreamsCameTrue

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I'm sure most people are going to get married anyway, even if lawyers were to tell them up front what the risks are.

Tradition and emotional thinking overpowers logic for most people.

Business will be booming for you for a long time.

It's fascinating how lawyers were able to slowly sort of "bend the system" to their own advantage over the course of a few decades. It all started with Regan passing the no-fault divorce law in CA, and from there the legal community really ran with it.

I see similar things going on in other industries that I've been a part of. All the guys at the top are looking for ways to maximize profitability. Like in my rehab biz for example, we are always looking for ways to make it easier for addicts to get into rehab and have insurance pay for it. But of course there's very strict laws and we really can't get around them. There's plenty of money to be made being legit, so not too many places go around the law. The difference is that I see a huge amount of regulation in the healthcare field that keeps people honest and protects the public.

When it comes to family law, I see no safeguards. No one is protecting the public. Those who make and interpret the law have free range to increase profitability without any regulations reigning them in.
 
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Esquire

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On a related note:

If you are an entreprenuer ... married ... and one day find yourself cruising towards a divorce ... if you don't hire me as a third party divorce mediator ... you are F*cking Nuts.

Who do you think is going to give you the best shot at a win-win outcome ...?

Me ... or a slowlane judge ...?

No brainer.

Lot cheaper that two lawyers fanning the flames and raping your bank accounts.

Mediation available nationwide.

Better Call Z.
 

Esquire

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Prenups too. ;)

If you (do) decide to get married ... I'd better be on your speed dial.

I can help mitigate your exposure to risk.

My approach to prenups is very "entrepreneur friendly" ;)
 

IceCreamKid

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Your thoughts don't align with mine, therefore F*ck you. Just kidding.

I actually don't have any opinion on the topic since I'm still a somewhat young guy and haven't really even given much thought to marriage, but I just wanted to say thanks to everybody on both sides for bringing up some VERY valid points that haven't crossed my mind.

I had no clue that prenups don't hold up.
 
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DreamsCameTrue

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If you're a young guy, this is the time to start learning about these issues.

Within the next few years either a GF or your family is going to be bearing down on your trying to pressure you into marriage, and you better know exactly what you're doing when that time comes.

Looks at what you might be getting yourself into-
 

Vigilante

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Thank you Vigilante. I can tell you're a class act.

We're glad to have you here. There are a lot of great ladies here. Hang around for a while. This thread is not the typical type of content you will find at the forum.
 
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Chitown

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@DreamsCameTrue i think Vigilante was refering to @Journey2Million$ Post as misogynistic and it's sure is. I did not see misogynism in your post.
@theag sorry but your post is just plain disrespectful ......Women are not trainable puppies. Period.

Back to the issue : i agree that people change, people are unpredictable in their own way, you cant control life situations and how people would respond to them,
....so yes marriage being a partnership you can only control your 50%.
However,and just like in business you have to believe. Believe in achieving the impossible, you have to keep your innocence and dont get stained negatively by the experience (s) ( yes get wise, but stay innocent as contradictory as this might sound ) ....
Just like in business, keep having faith, dont hold back ( because holding back is for cowards anyway) ......
@Bila,
I could be wrong but I read this as a "tongue in cheek" joke, not as a statement on the way women should be treated.
 

GlobalWealth

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We're glad to have you here. There are a lot of great ladies here. Hang around for a while. This thread is not the typical type of content you will find at the forum.
Agreed. There are many smart, successful women on here. However this thread is just as important for women as it is for men on here.

I have a female friend who is hugely successful and went through a divorce. Her husband worked for her company which she owned before ever meeting him. through the years he became less and less effective at work but continued to draw the same 6 figure salary. In the divorce he got half the company and she had to buy him out for a very large sum.

Basically he was living from her success and she eventually got tired of being his keeper. Then she had to pay 7 figures just to get him out.

My point is successful women are equally at risk and should consider every aspect of asset protection planning.

And just because someone has a personal or religious bias doesn't mean the risks aren't real. The courts don't care if your head is stuck in the sand.
 
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Vigilante

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Just a reminder that there are people here at the forum are a cultural melting pot. We are blessed to have people with all kinds of specialties and areas of expertise. In this thread, we have people who profit from estate planning, asset protection, divorce, and coaching single people on dating and relationships. We're glad they are all here, and their advice will naturally bias towards their interests (like everyone elses) and their incomes. It doesn't make them wrong... in fact it may be the opposite. Many of their biases come from first hand experiences. Best to talk about brain surgery with a brain surgeon. Just know that the reason behind some of the emotional strong opinions here is that their lives and professions are tied in to this topic. Question everything.

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/i-am-not-responsible-required-reading.20271/
 
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DreamsCameTrue

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Sure question everything. Take in some new info. I'm not asking everyone to finalize an anti marriage stance. Just check out this one video, and consider the asset protection angle of all this. It can't hurt ya to just watch one video.

Also, as Global Wealth said, this is for women too. Asset protection is something that pertains to everyone, male or female.

Edited : By Vigilante to delete double posted video so that people don't start to think you are a spammer here just plugging a video.
 
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Vigilante

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Not sure that MJ would have them, but maybe you should check into taking out ads at the forum for divorce corp. we have probably given them all the links were going to give them. Pretty much all of their content is the same message.
 

Mattie

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Esquire has some good points! He's not exactly lying in my case. If he was around in 2005-2007 I could used him instead of the bloke I had for a lawyer that was just about the money. I don't know what planet some of you live on, but I've never been favored in Court because I was a woman. Maybe Michigan is different, or the judges, etc. Either way child support or divorce, I never was favored. That was my experience.
 
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DreamsCameTrue

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@Mattie Tell us about the unfavorable treatment you received in court, if you dont mind and if it's not confidential. Sounds interesting.
 

Mattie

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I rather not get into the personal details out of respect of the other people involved. On the other hand, I will say that I've met plenty of single men that receive child support as women do. And feel that it really comes down to the one who is fittest psychologically, emotionally, and mentally, today as a parent. I believe the Judge, Lawyer, Referee, determines in divorces, what is in the best interest of the child. And most of the time you have to be pretty abusive physically and extremely dysfunctional with drugs, alcohol, and emotionally or mentally unstable to have your children taken away.

Just in my observations with other families, even if their children were taken away for a few days, they're returned, unless extreme facts and evidence are presented by child services. And because I signed a paper I can't elaborate on that confidentiality of facts and evidence unless I would want to be in trouble with a few social systems and the law.

I don't believe people do their job, and the cases are overloaded, and the entire system needs to be revamped. This usually comes down to anger/emotion/and pay backs. So depending on what state you live in, the laws are different. A man or woman's actions determine who would be favored today. I don't believe it's the woman always wins today, because they can be very dysfunctional and not use common sense, and judge's and lawyers see how games are played in court. And I hear from women, when the children are taken away, they didn't do anything, but it was how they handled the situation, outbursts, not managing emotions, feelings, and acting out. Same for men if they're in the situation. The court only cares about action. Whether you're willing to do what you're told to do to be a functioning parent and meeting the child's needs and welfare.

Then you have to be aware, were the parents married in the first place. You have unwed mothers that have all rights from the start just because they didn't get married and the male has to establish paternity rights. The male admits or denies he's the parent, and usually the court is the one that enforces the paternity test if the woman pursues it. And it's always a choice whether you want to move on with your life and leave things alone, or prove their is paternity and go after money.

The divorces are different. The parents were married when the child was born so then it comes into who is more healthier and stable, and money doesn't have much to do with it in determining parenting rights. I've seen mother's and dad's practically homeless and still have their children. And even in homeless shelters you will see them with their children.

Money doesn't make you an unfit parent. It's usually the abuse and neglect that gets them in trouble. I believe every case is unique and different by what I've seen, and who is in charge of the case, and who has more power and leverage. It's a power game and money comes in when you need a good lawyer, but then you can get in debt by having that lawyer and fighting for your rights. So what is the lesser evil, going into debt or letting go of parental rights, or visitation. Once they're in the system, you're either struggling to pay for a lawyer, and some get with the wrong lawyer that only cares about his money, not helping them. And so, they still can be in debt and lose. And also whether they're taking action and following court orders.

For divorce itself, I don't believe it is always in favor of the women. Each case is unique and what people feel is unfair doesn't matter. People lie and play a game again because it's always about getting even and pay backs. Draw out the case as long as you can for the other party until they give up and run out of money and get in debt. The greater evil again is cut your losses and let it slide, or go in debt with a lawyer because you know one of the sides is going to drag it out.

Most of the time it's just a war over materialism and money, and they don't have money to begin with, and lawyers are the one's that win in the end.

The biggest joke is small claims court. Sure you can win a case, but never get your money back. I'm not to fond of the court system. It's necessary of course, but it has it's downfall for many, and other times such as in my friends recent death, justice was served. Every system has it's holes and problems. And of course it's a business and $$$ trump the verdict.
 

Texan

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I actually just read every page of this exhausting thread. What it all comes down to is what you want personally. Want to never marry and amass your stockpile for your fun and then leave it for your foundation or your kids (if you have them) when you die? Cool! Go for it!

Want make money and raise a family, enjoy spending time and money on them, with two parents who have a lot to lose if it doesn't work out? Awesome! Go for it!

I've been married for 10 years. It hasn't always been bliss...but the fact that we were married kept us together through the rough patches. And now we enjoy the benefits - greater ( and hotter) physical intimacy, and an emotional and spiritual connection.

I despise the government being involved in my business at any level, so I get what @Esquire is saying to a certain extent. But ultimately marriage is a public commitment at its most basics level. That's why it works and why it's held societies together for millennia.

I love the intimacy in my marriage. Not just the sex (not complaining about it though ) but being known by another person. I can't explain it if you've never felt it. But someone who knows everything about you and yet still loves you...and isnt a parent. And chooses or love you. And supports you.

And of course you have to marry the right person. God knows there are only so many of those out there.

But, anonymous lurker reading all thread - please don't make life choices based on anonymous people on the internet. Decide for yourself.

And don't waste your time on watching videos for companies selling divorce crap...

Peace!
 
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DreamsCameTrue

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Hey Texan, thanks for reading.

A little friendly debate here-
I can see the upside to what your talking about, the intimacy, the commitment, the fact that someone supports you. I'm all for that and it's great stuff. I just think you can get EVERYTHING you just mentioned without getting married.

In your case, you're saying the fact that you were married kept you together in some bad times and that now, looking back, it was totally worth it. I appreciate the point you are making here. However, I think it's possible for UNMARRIED people to stay together during tough times and for it to be totally worth it later.

I think there's a tendency among married people to backwards rationalize what a great idea it was to get married, especially when they realize how devastating it would be to try to end the relationship. That's why we have a guy like you looking back with rose colored hindsight, and we have these billionaires saying marriage was a great idea (mentioned earlier in the thread).

I am genuinely happy for you. I really don't want to piss on your parade here....but I gotta tell ya something. The intimacy and support your enjoying right now is NOT GUARANTEED by your marriage certificate. If you or your wife lose interest for some reason...any reason...or become financially incentivized to divorce each other, all of that intimacy and support could go away very quickly. A marriage certificate can change human behavior and human emotions to some extent (because divorce carries the threat of financial ruin and public humiliation for many people), but if your wife really decides she is sick of you and she wants someone else, or she starts caring more about the money than about you, that's IT, LIGHTS OUT. There's no piece of paper that can save you then. You marriage certificate just means that you are fresh meat for the divorce industry then.
 

DreamsCameTrue

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Also, I see people keep saying that the Divorce Corp documentary is some kind of massive cash play. Texan said they are "selling divorce crap."

To me it looks more like a man on a mission, lucky to break even, but making a heroic effort to create change in an unfair situation.


Show me where this guy is making billions???

My guess is he spent 1M or more making the film and will be lucky to break even. I highly doubt this DVD is flying off the shelves, it's just not a very entertaining film, and it's not mainstream at all. Also, YouTube views are almost worthless. You need like millions of views to see a few grand.

Where is this massive cash play?

I mean I hope he is, but I doubt it. I think you guys just want to dismiss this as a cash play because you disagree with it and you are threatened by it.

Edited by vigilante... Links removed
 
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Texan

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Not threatened at all. I just happen to be suspicious of the motives of people putting stuff out like that. Each person has their own experiences and ideals that guide them. Sorry for those who have had bad experiences in marriage but that isn't my experience nor the experience of millions of others.

Just do what you want to. Based on education level, income level, age, and our religion, the odds of my wife and I getting divorced are very low. Plus we are each other's best friend, so we can't do without each other.

I doubt we will be leaving each other anytime soon.
 
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GlobalWealth

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Based on education level, income level, age, and our religion, the odds of my wife and I getting divorced are very low. Plus we are each other's best friend, so we can't do without each other.

I doubt we will be leaving each other anytime soon.

I said the exact same thing 6 years ago. You may be so lucky to stay together forever and many do. But circumstances change as we grow older.
 

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