Is this "start small, but dream big" kind of thinking?

[nomeus]

To start it off, I'll tell you little about my background.

I live in an Eastern Europe, so noone buys "scrub daddy" and "readerest" type of products here. We stick to necessities. Average wage is crappy here - 550 EUR after tax (and you have to pay 200-300EUR for decent 1 bedroom flat). Lots of Russian style businesses (not paying taxes (so they offer unrealistic prices), not paying wages, nasty techniques). So as you can imagine, its not exactly a paradise for starting a business. And its hard to find a niche in a country where there is less than 2 million people and 25% of that people are living with less than 350 EUR a month.

I have worked in different industries, done some very interesting jobs and even managed to start some businesses, but they all failed (I had a roof cleening business and an online electronics store, even tried buying and selling cars). They failed mostly because of the thin margins and lack of knowledge and connections, (and poor business ideas). Unfortunately, I have exactly 0 rich friends or relatives to ask business advice.

On my way to this day, I have taught myself some basic web development skills and even built some websites for small companies. Im not too tech savvy, but I do understand how and why things work.

And, because of lack of business ideas, I have come to conclusion that I have to start a small web development / marketing agency to get some cash flowing and then build our own IT products or services that we could sell. Starting from web development, I could teach myself all the skills I need to build bigger applications or products, and build a team around me.

So my question is, is it smart to start a business in a slowly dying industry, just to take it of the ground and then when that great idea strikes, move to the next level? Because in the end, its not easy to make a lot of money building websites for living, my goal is to create products and services that people will use and enjoy even outside of this country, just know, I'm short of ideas to pursue.

Thank you very much for your advice in advance.

 

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[Michał Kóska]

Where do you live? I'm from Poland, almost same reality here

My commendation for you- think globally not locally. Right now, I'm not even thinking about a business in my home country, I am only thinking about USA, UK & others.

 

[nomeus]

Where do you live? I'm from Poland, almost same reality here

My commendation for you- think globally not locally. Right now, I'm not even thinking about a business in my home country, I am only thinking about USA, UK & others.

I'm from Latvia. We consider Poland as Europes China.

Regards to your answer, to target USA, UK and others you have to have a product or service in place. Right now I dont have one. And to build a valuable product from scratch, you have to have a capital to work with. At least thats how I see it.

 

[Michał Kóska]

I'm from Latvia. We consider Poland as Europes China.

Lol this part made my day )

It all depends on what product we are talking about. If this is a physical thing you can use for example Amazon FBA. If this is a service then the only thing you need to do is to create it It don't have to be supreme, you can upgrade it. Give them the value and they will give you money.

 

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[RogueInnovation]

A rogue will recognise the danger, but also must innovate the solution.

You recognise this struggle of your economic climate, but do you recognise the dangers of YOUR situation?
- desperation
- blaming your country
- identifying yourself as poor by assosciation
- giving yourself an easy way out (by blaming your country) in case you feel its easier and more desireable to quit

To innovate a solution you must realise some things about your surroundings
- starting in struggle is irrelevant, country is irrelevant, desperation is irrelevant, because your identity is your own, and so is your future
- creativity and solutions do not have low value just because of your country, value is unilateral
- only a man can determine the severity of his circumstances


I've felt like I've been drowning for a long time.
Business and all the stuff I do, hurts.
But I resolve, to continue, to not blame.

And through this attrition, I find a way.


So can you.
Don't tell yourself you are defeated before the journey has even begun.
Stand on your two feet, and endevour to do all you can.



Ask yourself... Can you be a rogue?
Can you find the unusual path, the original path, the innovative path?

Are you strong enough?
Will YOU persevere
Through that drowning, choking, feeling, can you stand to keep going?

Yes?
Then keep going

 

[nomeus]

Then keep going

Thank you, I think I got what I needed.

 

[jazb]

I am an offline guy, I don't bother with online stuff. but if I was in your shoes, i would 100% be doing online.

The opportunities are endless. keep going. don't stop.

 

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[nomeus]

Although my original question - "is it smart to start a business in a slowly dying industry, just to take it of the ground and then when that great idea strikes, move to the next level?" - wasnt answered, my conclusion from your answers is:

It doesn't matter where and how you start. Just start!

Am I right?

 

[Tobore]

@nomeus nice post.
I used to think this way but the picture is clearer now...

What are the necessities the people buy? my guess is food, water, housing et all.
Then...
find out who supplies these necessities.
find out what problem they are having.
find out their goals.
Create a system to help them achieve their goals - a system that obeys the NESCT principle.
Who knows where such an idea (based on them) could get you? - you could dominate the market
Then create a system that will help them get there. If they can make money selling those stuffs, then you can make money by solving their problems or making their delivery easier and faster.
Let your focus be on them, forget about what you want and focus on what they want.

 

[nomeus]

@nomeus
Create a system to help them achieve their goals

Thank you for your answer, my only concern with local products is: is the pie big enough, to be worth investing time? But probably I shouldnt even bother you guys with such questions. Just need to get out and see!

 

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[RogueInnovation]

To isolate good markets is a trick you'll need to pick up on by intuition.
No one can tell you the answer, because your brain (and the triggers that will cause you to get it) has a unique password or code that has to be entered before you'll believe what you are seeing and go with it.
No one can push you to SEE the right markets, all we can do is tell you what we pick up on and hope it helps.

I do not start market research by picking ideas one by one.
Why?
Because you will only think of things you have thought of before and go around in circles.

I start market research by observing products all around me. I pick up a coke can, I look at the branding on the side of a passing truck, I observe the ferris wheel being constucted, and I just sit back and think about why it is happening the way it is.

I observe markets incidentally by picking up on clues all around, and I think about the significance of these seemingly featureless things. And the deeper you dig, the more you start to pick up on WHY successful businesses and even middle of the road businesses choose to do what they do, and THAT leads you to an understanding of their market.

Observe and think upon all business activities, and you will by nature of this deeper understanding come to see market opportunities no one else sees.


TO SEE what others ignore, is the art of locating markets and opportunities.



As far as starting a biz goes...
Your biggest obstacle will be the temptation to quit and say "its not what I wanted or what I thought"
So your best course of action is to pursue a business idea that is VERY VERY lightweight.
And struggle through your own problems (they will pop up, because as people we tend to crave someone to push us, so you'll tend to sabotage yourself and remind yourself that you suck and should give up) once you get through those problems and launch that lightweight business you'll be ahead of 90% of the competition.

This combined with understanding the market opportunities will give you your first TRUE business idea.


This day is years away from now.
If you can accept that fact, and struggle through those inner monsters wanting to drown you.
You'll be ok.
You'll make a business, or maybe a few, and do well.
And the fact you are east European will have no bearing on the respect you command in a room.


Cheer up, their is light ahead, and its all a lot simpler than you'd think.

 

[nomeus]

Cheer up, their is light ahead, and its all a lot simpler than you'd think.

Thank you,

I assume you are an author? I mean, have you written a book? If not, you should! One of the best things I have ever red.

I do not start market research by picking ideas one by one.
Why?
Because you will only think of things you have thought of before and go around in circles.

It seems like you know exactly where I stand right now!

 

[Hassen]

550 EU after tax is more than what I make. And I'm considered making a decent income for someone my age. And I live in the damn capital city. Just the ex communist bloc style, man.

Would second the above posters who mentioned to only target US/UK markets as well as doing online.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

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[Mattie]

I assume you are an author

hmm...see you're intuition is working already. He's an author. I read some stuff.

 

[RogueInnovation]

I assume you are an author?

I do make some of my money that way (enough to pay some bills). People like chickenhawk broke through and made an impact there. Its a difficult area to break through in, you have to write for years and really hone your skill, and create lots of books, so its not my main area of focus. Though like Mattie said, I do write(so does she).

My main business endevours however are in manufacturing, as there is less saturation, the products sell at higher prices than books do and I can market it much more effectively. I have much more control, and I can alter the products I provide to match different markets.
In writing, you are appealling only to a few genres, with a few markets, and its much more of a bottle neck to your success.

The lesson there is, don't just do what you are seemingly good at, get good at the things that turn the odds in your favor. If you can "dial in" or "close in on" your perfect market you are much more likely to succeed than if you, force yourself to succeed in a market that has a narrow margin for success.

You have to start ignoring people that flatter certain skills you have. Flattery is nice and all but reality is the place you wanna be.



Here, big guys have talked about how the CRAZE is to sell Tshirts, make a cafe/restaurant, or to make a social networking site that takes over the world. But those markets have NARROW bottle necks. Its hard to provide anything drastically new, and they are very hard to switch target markets with.

Thinking simple is a virtue, there are businesses all around you that have markets that are under served. There are large markets that with a little care, and a little attention can really come out of hybernation with just a little modernisation or improvement.


You have to come to learn that there are no "hands free" businesses. You have to really become a solid business man, who truly knows what he is doing. And that comes from observation, and some participation and endurance.

I choose oppportunities with a broad level of flexibility, so I can dial in on a market or drop a project if its clearly the wrong approach.


I enjoy writing, I'm decent at it, but I do not force myself to hit bullseyes.
I help myserlf out, by looking for ways I can HELP myself find a good market.



If I was JUST a writer, I wouldn't know my business like I do.
How to package products, do finances, establish distribution, warehouses, staffing, marketting budgets/strategy, sourcing, competitive analysis.

All that might SOUND complex, but its really all a matter of staying grounded, and taking it one bite at a time, and keeping a level and clear perspective.


It takes much longer than it all should, mostly because you run around trying to FEEL like you deserve to succeed. But in the end, you could plan each one on a single sheet of paper.
And thats basically what I do.
I look at a market opportunity and I scribble down the set up, how it might work, and then I just put it away.
Really good opportunities tend to make sense through time, so you dig it back up, and figure out a way to have a go at the business.

You never just plan to go all in, you circle around it, test it, tease with it, guage peoples reactions, talk to sources and guage how good supply relationships will be.
And you be really careful, you don't jump in head first.

Talk to experts in the field, and get a feel for the whole landscape around it, and possible avenues OUT if it doesn't float.


By doing this, and keeping your wits about you, you find good markets, because you learn to distinguish between fools gold and a very SAFE and secure road to success, with all the odds stacked in your favor.

Business is like poker, some hands you fold, so that you never "tilt" (tilt means to just have no way back into the game)
If you go too hard at the start, and you keep losing hands, it'll really make you sweat.

Don't do that, take your time, stack the odds in your favor, hand by hand.


The reason I'm here able to give you some advice is I played it for the long haul. Not for glory, immediate riches, or to look awesome.
You HAVE to make MOVES, but you don't have to make STUPID moves.


This is what stacking the odds in your favor is all about. You don't JUST choose a narrow and saturated market, you set yourself up for simpler success in a broad and under served market, a market with potential to go in a few directions with not too much momentum lost.

If you can gain that intuitive awareness, thats how you play the game.



Everyone and their DOG wants to be the BEST, but thats not how you FIND and SERVE the best markets. Its how you get distracted.

Some people are good writers, and they will succeed if they stick to it.
I might be one of them, BUT, its irrelevant to me because I'm playing the game.
And because I'm playing the game I realise that writing is just ONE market.
And even though I'm good, I know how to look at my competition and size up the risk.

Thats why I favor my current manufacturing biz.

Good strategy.


You have to be very careful of hubris.
Very very careful.

There are reasons to favor business opportunities that do not at all require, one mans excellence.
Excellence really only ensures you will break through the barrier to entry established by other entities. But if, the squueze on market share is really high, or the market size is declining, your excellence will only snatch you a piece of the pie.

But if you look around, you can have more than ONE slice of pie.
So, thats why I play, rather than just write


Thanks for the compliment though.

 

[Joanne Wong]

A rogue will recognise the danger, but also must innovate the solution.

You recognise this struggle of your economic climate, but do you recognise the dangers of YOUR situation?
- desperation
- blaming your country
- identifying yourself as poor by assosciation
- giving yourself an easy way out (by blaming your country) in case you feel its easier and more desireable to quit

To innovate a solution you must realise some things about your surroundings
- starting in struggle is irrelevant, country is irrelevant, desperation is irrelevant, because your identity is your own, and so is your future
- creativity and solutions do not have low value just because of your country, value is unilateral
- only a man can determine the severity of his circumstances


I've felt like I've been drowning for a long time.
Business and all the stuff I do, hurts.
But I resolve, to continue, to not blame.

And through this attrition, I find a way.


So can you.
Don't tell yourself you are defeated before the journey has even begun.
Stand on your two feet, and endevour to do all you can.



Ask yourself... Can you be a rogue?
Can you find the unusual path, the original path, the innovative path?

Are you strong enough?
Will YOU persevere
Through that drowning, choking, feeling, can you stand to keep going?

Yes?
Then keep going

This is so true. I find it very inspiring and it is exactly what I need to be brutally honest to myself.

 

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[Unknown]

Just learn Russian now, and then write a book teaching Russian to the others in your area. Then when Putin starts his invasion you'll be rich!

Just kidding. Good luck man. Just keep at it until you find something that works.

Were you saying that web development is a dying field? I disagree with that completely. It might be dying in your area, but you could develop websites for other countries.

 

[Tobore]

I do make some of my money that way (enough to pay some bills). People like chickenhawk broke through and made an impact there. Its a difficult area to break through in, you have to write for years and really hone your skill, and create lots of books, so its not my main area of focus. Though like Mattie said, I do write(so does she).

My main business endevours however are in manufacturing, as there is less saturation, the products sell at higher prices than books do and I can market it much more effectively. I have much more control, and I can alter the products I provide to match different markets.
In writing, you are appealling only to a few genres, with a few markets, and its much more of a bottle neck to your success.

The lesson there is, don't just do what you are seemingly good at, get good at the things that turn the odds in your favor. If you can "dial in" or "close in on" your perfect market you are much more likely to succeed than if you, force yourself to succeed in a market that has a narrow margin for success.

You have to start ignoring people that flatter certain skills you have. Flattery is nice and all but reality is the place you wanna be.



Here, big guys have talked about how the CRAZE is to sell Tshirts, make a cafe/restaurant, or to make a social networking site that takes over the world. But those markets have NARROW bottle necks. Its hard to provide anything drastically new, and they are very hard to switch target markets with.

Thinking simple is a virtue, there are businesses all around you that have markets that are under served. There are large markets that with a little care, and a little attention can really come out of hybernation with just a little modernisation or improvement.


You have to come to learn that there are no "hands free" businesses. You have to really become a solid business man, who truly knows what he is doing. And that comes from observation, and some participation and endurance.

I choose oppportunities with a broad level of flexibility, so I can dial in on a market or drop a project if its clearly the wrong approach.


I enjoy writing, I'm decent at it, but I do not force myself to hit bullseyes.
I help myserlf out, by looking for ways I can HELP myself find a good market.



If I was JUST a writer, I wouldn't know my business like I do.
How to package products, do finances, establish distribution, warehouses, staffing, marketting budgets/strategy, sourcing, competitive analysis.

All that might SOUND complex, but its really all a matter of staying grounded, and taking it one bite at a time, and keeping a level and clear perspective.


It takes much longer than it all should, mostly because you run around trying to FEEL like you deserve to succeed. But in the end, you could plan each one on a single sheet of paper.
And thats basically what I do.
I look at a market opportunity and I scribble down the set up, how it might work, and then I just put it away.
Really good opportunities tend to make sense through time, so you dig it back up, and figure out a way to have a go at the business.

You never just plan to go all in, you circle around it, test it, tease with it, guage peoples reactions, talk to sources and guage how good supply relationships will be.
And you be really careful, you don't jump in head first.

Talk to experts in the field, and get a feel for the whole landscape around it, and possible avenues OUT if it doesn't float.


By doing this, and keeping your wits about you, you find good markets, because you learn to distinguish between fools gold and a very SAFE and secure road to success, with all the odds stacked in your favor.

Business is like poker, some hands you fold, so that you never "tilt" (tilt means to just have no way back into the game)
If you go too hard at the start, and you keep losing hands, it'll really make you sweat.

Don't do that, take your time, stack the odds in your favor, hand by hand.


The reason I'm here able to give you some advice is I played it for the long haul. Not for glory, immediate riches, or to look awesome.
You HAVE to make MOVES, but you don't have to make STUPID moves.


This is what stacking the odds in your favor is all about. You don't JUST choose a narrow and saturated market, you set yourself up for simpler success in a broad and under served market, a market with potential to go in a few directions with not too much momentum lost.

If you can gain that intuitive awareness, thats how you play the game.



Everyone and their DOG wants to be the BEST, but thats not how you FIND and SERVE the best markets. Its how you get distracted.

Some people are good writers, and they will succeed if they stick to it.
I might be one of them, BUT, its irrelevant to me because I'm playing the game.
And because I'm playing the game I realise that writing is just ONE market.
And even though I'm good, I know how to look at my competition and size up the risk.

Thats why I favor my current manufacturing biz.

Good strategy.


You have to be very careful of hubris.
Very very careful.

There are reasons to favor business opportunities that do not at all require, one mans excellence.
Excellence really only ensures you will break through the barrier to entry established by other entities. But if, the squueze on market share is really high, or the market size is declining, your excellence will only snatch you a piece of the pie.

But if you look around, you can have more than ONE slice of pie.
So, thats why I play, rather than just write


Thanks for the compliment though.

This is awesome I must say. I LEARNED a lot from that single post. It will go a long way.

Thanks man!