Ethics: Good Business vs Bad Business

[Digamma]

Great response. I made a lot of questions for you. You respond to nothing. I don't even know what you mean about natural. Like I see that. Is like dog eat dog. I don't know what the F*ck you mean. Because you just read some bullshit somewhere that suites your view. And then you spread the shit all over the place. So now. We are done.

I literally just explained it to you. Bullshit somewhere? What? What the F*ck are you talking about?

And yes. I think your view is ignorrant as shit. Because I believe in the greater good of society. That we together can get somewhere. While you just see it as some fairy tales laughable things that we can't work on together to better society.

And I agree. What I said has nothing to do with this. You are putting words in my mouth and getting angry for it. It's amusing.

Do you believe in long-term relationships too? Or is that just about sex? That's just the same. Just as F*cking stupid. Stupidest reply I've ever gotten and most ignorrant too.

What? Are you discussing with yourself or something?

Of course I gonna stand up on what I believe in and what is dear to me. Morality/Ethics.

That is what you're doing? I thought you were just trolling. Honest. I respect that. I have nothing against morality and ethics.

By the way. Do they have to be natural to count? Sounds logical to me.

No, they don't, and I never said that. I just observed how they are relative and, as such, not absolute. It's not that hard. In your society you have certain values. In others society other values apply, and each of them is right inside of their own. People decide what is wrong and right, not something external, so you are right in your society, other people are right in their own.
Think of it as a box. The society is a box. We are in one box, and we decide the rules in the box. When you look at another box, you see them from your box, with your rules. But in their box, they have their rules, and by those rules, they are right.
This is what I was talking about. I hope I expressed myself better this time.

 

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[Maxjohan]

I literally just explained it to you. Bullshit somewhere? What? What the F*ck are you talking about?

Nah. I am trying to make a point on the society is not inforced by "natural laws". What do you mean with those natural laws?

And I agree. What I said has nothing to do with this. You are putting words in my mouth and getting angry for it. It's amusing.

Then, what do you mean with good and evil are laughable concepts?

What? Are you discussing with yourself or something?

Your arguement is kind of that morality/ethics aren't a natural law, so then they are not true. That's what's bother me.

That is what you're doing? I thought you were just trolling. Honest. I respect that. I have nothing against morality and ethics.

Okay. I could have been a bit clearer with why I hated your view in my first post. But at the same time I was getting pissed off that you said I had brain damage and so on.

Hopefully we can end this soon. LOL.

 

[Digamma]

Nah. I am trying to make a point on the society is not inforced by "natural laws". What do you mean with those natural laws?

That it's made from human decisions, not from external forces. We decide to be in a society and enforce it's rules, but it's still a choice.

Then, what do you mean with good and evil are laughable concepts?

Same as above. Maybe "laughable" was a poor choice of words? Anyway, I mean that what we consider good and evil are arbitrary, we decide what is good and evil as a collective, but they are not absolute concepts from an external authority (or course, one can believe in a God, but that is again a choice).

Your arguement is kind of that morality/ethics aren't a natural law, so then they are not true. That's what's bother me.

I wouldn't say that they are not "true". Reality is subjective. If people believe them true, then they are by any means true.
What I wanted to argue is more that since people decide what morality/ethics are, then our idea of morality has the same dignity of other people's ideas, even if they conflict like in the examples we made.
From our point of view, we are right, sure. I'm not advocating a "live and let live" philosophy, either. Not everything is ok - I'm just observing that what is ok and what it isn't it's something men choose, not some external truth we adopt.

Okay. I could have been a bit clearer with why I hated your view in my first post. But at the same time I was getting pissed off that you said I had brain damage and so on.

We got heated. That's ok, it happens. This stuff arises passion in people, as it should be: as you said, we're more than just monkeys.

I edited my response above to answer your edit, anyway, might explain things up!

Now, man: back to making money.

 

[Maxjohan]

Now, man: back to making money.

So true. I guess what bothers me is that people always bring up the moral codes as subjective and that natural laws arguement. I would just wish people focused more on if people had good or bad morals than just state the things most know. If you know what I mean? But some people doesn't believe in objective morality/what I would say is good or bad morals. And that was what pissed me off.

 

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[Spacecake]

Cars, kills people.
Alchool, kills your liver and gets people addicted.
Clothes: Slave like working conditions in Asia with low salary. Or clothes that are made to get torn after a year or two. (Low quality.)
Computer games: Could make you addicted.

Etc. Etc.

Can anyone come up with a business that is 100% ethical?

Being ethical is not about making obvious responsible choices for your customers, it's about giving them an honest platform to make these choices. The speedometer in a car should tell you how fast a car goes; giving inaccurate data is where ethics comes in. Alcohol kills, yes, but it is also good for health. Not telling people the actual alcoholic percentage in a bottle, or advising them on the recommended amount to be consumed is where the problem lies. You can always take care of your factory workers, no matter the industry or the continent. As for computer games .......... stop blaming winter for bringing snow.

 

[Maxjohan]

Being ethical is not about making obvious responsible choices for your customers, it's about giving them an honest platform to make these choices. The speedometer in a car should tell you how fast a car goes; giving inaccurate data is where ethics comes in. Alcohol kills, yes, but it is also good for health. Not telling people the actual alcoholic percentage in a bottle, or advising them on the recommended amount to be consumed is where the problem lies. You can always take care of your factory workers, no matter the industry or the continent. As for computer games .......... stop blaming winter for bringing snow.

Oh sh*t. Do I need to start a new argument about this. No way. LOL. But you are right to certain degree of course. It's just me that are a little too concerned and moral infused. I guess. Most don't think like me.

 

[Spacecake]

Oh sh*t. Do I need to start a new argument about this. No way. LOL. But you are right to certain degree of course. It's just me that are a little too concerned and moral infused. I guess. Most don't think like me.

Haha. I just saw your heated argument. Normally, when a thread starts getting heated I avoid reading the rest of it just to conserve my positive energy. I think i get your point on morality but I also think there is a very fine line between morality and ethics in business. Ethics in business in my opinion is transparency with customers. Period.

 

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[Spacecake]

.

 

[Digamma]

Haha. I just saw your heated argument. Normally, when a thread starts getting heated I avoid reading the rest of it just to conserve my positive energy. I think i get your point on morality but I also think there is a very fine line between morality and ethics in business. Ethics in business in my opinion is transparency with customers. Period.

I agree with you.
Of course, one might have reservations about a business field (I would never sell or produce weapons, for example), but truth is almost anything might hurt somebody. I care deeply about food and eating, but I don't think I can say that the fast food industry is "evil", as long as they don't tell people that it's healthy to it that stuff every day.

 

[Mr.B]

Geez ... what happened to this thread?

What started out as an interesting discussion about the place of ethics in business and the importance of doing what's right (even if it means making less money) somehow turned into pages of pseudo philosophical dribble. C'mon guys, you're better than this.

If you want to create a sustainable business, then you need to operate with integrity. Simple.

 

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[Maxjohan]

What started out as an interesting discussion about the place of ethics in business and the importance of doing what's right (even if it means making less money) somehow turned into pages of pseudo philosophical dribble.

Yeah. I agree. I used to visit a philosophy forum and argue for hours when I was in my early 20s. Realized that it was a big mistake later on.

 

[Mattie]

The only way that evil can ever succeed is for good men to do nothing.

The problem I face being a Social Entrepreneur as well as Spiritual is that you have so many belief systems around the globe. Whether it's political, religious, philosophy, psychology, science, and this mixture of belief systems cause chaos and confusion. You throw in re-inventing the wheel, re-packaging, changing words to fit the bill, you end up with more chaos and confusion in the business aspect to make a quick buck.

Fortunately, when you're aware and point those things out you become the evil one because you stop criminals from profiting and busting the operations that are illegal. On the other hand we still deceive people legally with in the law. You become a target even though at the same time you're the hero and advocating for some cause. As one guy I know of wants to change things, but businessmen stepped in said, it's not the time for this, because the world's not ready for it. Meaning money comes before humanity or even animals.

The perceptions and beliefs have to change, but that would mean people have to get beyond the discrimination, prejudice, stigma, and labels. They would have to get past their fears of the other side of the fence culturally, age, gender, race, differences of opinions and beliefs. They'd have to let go of the "Me" and basically the Lucifer effect and Standford prison experiment's, even milligram's, demonstrates how far people will go under the influence of someone in authority and power.

Our imaginations are very creative and we go by what we hear and how others influence us to treat others and ethics. Good and Evil exists because we personally create it individually and collectively. While we can do things that are within our limitations, we set ourselves up to be targeted. Such as Martin Luther King, J.F. Kennedy. On the other hand, Rosa Parks wasn't harmed. While we have people that will risk their lives to make choices, many die for their causes and beliefs to change the world. Many have died trying, and some have succeeded without being harmed.

Good men watch people and do nothing every day and see things happening and laugh. So, this is the thing you can only do so much one by one. The world waits until many good men die before changes are made, because just like anything else in human nature, until the pain and suffering is there, the loss of lives, and it becomes a major event people don't want to pull together.

 

[GuestUser112]

Although, one man could simply manipulate those stigmas, fears, beliefs, etc and use them for a singular purpose.... Like Hitler did. Like Gandhi did. I mean good and evil are all relative. If something good happens to me, it's GOOD. If something bad happens to me, it's EVIL. Basically, anyway. If the whole world turned into an Islamic State? Not good for me. This thread was mostly meant to show that deceitful tricks in business will only get you so far, and that good business is good business because it works on the mutual basis of trading value for value - a principle which has endured since the dawn of the bartering system. Bringing spirituality into it only complicates things unnecessarily because spirituality as of yet unfortunately has no basis in fact. Hate to be an a**hole but with all the random spiritual bullshit floating around in cyberspace there a whole bunch of people getting confused.

Like that poor unfortunate fool who started this thread: https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...ng-law-of-attraction.56570/page-2#post-417101

 

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[Digamma]

Like that poor unfortunate fool who started this thread: https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...ng-law-of-attraction.56570/page-2#post-417101

Nah, he's just trolling us all.

 

[Mattie]

Hate to be an a**hole but with all the random spiritual bullshit floating around in cyberspace there a whole bunch of people getting confused.

Think that is the point it's a mixture of psychology, success mindset, fiction fantasy, spirituality, science, etc. As many books as I've read in the last 19 years in all categories that's my conclusion people are mixing shit and selling it as something other than what it's not.

 

[GuestUser112]

Nah, he's just trolling us all.

You know, I considered that, but his language was so mixed up that I think he might actually have mental issues. Oh well. The responses on that thread had me laughing

 

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[EmperorPear]

But... I sleep well.

This times a hundred. I could never be happy knowing that I ripped off someone and made him unhappy. No amount of money can cover that up.

 

[sonny_1080]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004I6ENCI/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

This is a really good book on this topic. Huntsman is a billionaire entrepreneur.

The link didn't go through.

Are you talking about Winners Never Cheat?