"Dessert" will never be the same

[DrJake]

I think targeting the healthy crowd first and then working your way up to the fitness group would be a great approach. Health foods and the accompanying grocery stores are thriving right now, and people trying to be healthy (whether they do it right or not) will try to make any unhealthy option healthy (ice cream with fruit on top, frozen yogurt over ice cream, custard over ice cream, dark chocolate, low sodium, fat free, sugar free, the list goes on) and by offering protein in a way that they can indulge too will attract a lot of people. While it might not be for the right reasons, healthy junkies (or as I call them, bandwagons) will jump all over this.

I like how you took my advice well and didn't feel threatened. You agreed my points were valid and found a solution that incorporated the ideas I brought to the table. This alone is a business skill that many many people lack and I truly commend you for having this skill already and by actively using it. Regardless of the market you end up choosing, I feel you are well ahead of the game with your mindset and approach and I expect you will do well!

Cheers!
Sam

Of course! I couldn't ignore someone's honest opinion. ESPECIALLY if they're a part of my target market. People aren't as original as they like to think they are: if one person has an opinion of your product, the chances are: thousands, tens of thousands, or millions of people will have the EXACT the same opinion. If you were to just shrug off the opinion of one of your potential customers as irrelevant you could be throwing a million dollars down the drain. That's why I always bring 100% percent of feedback to the table, even if I decide it would be best not to implement it.

You can never please everybody though. If someone or a group of people dislikes something about your product and condemns it some way, they aren't really standing AGAINST your product, but standing UP for their values, morals, or expectations. When analyzing feedback you really have to think:

Is the value/expectation they're standing up for wide-spread among your customers with similar products?
Can you fix this?
Will this violate the values/expectations of my target market?

and finally:

If the value/expectation is wide-spread among my target market, and my product violates this, I must either fix it, or pivot.

 

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[DrJake]

8/17/24

I think I've finally found a way to solve the protein aggregation problem I've been battling with for weeks. My new ingredients are coming in so until they arrive I'm doing some market research and trying to figure out how I can stand out from my competition. WheyHey has extremely good branding so that may be a challenge.

 

[Guest24480]

Someone mentioned earlier that no one will want to eat ice cream after a workout in their car on the way home. Personally, I don't drink my protein shake on the way home from the the gym, I wait until I am home. So for some people I don't think that would be an issue.

Also, I think your product would appeal to the people who go to the gym at night, as it is a dessert. Just a thought.

 

[DrJake]

Someone mentioned earlier that no one will want to eat ice cream after a workout in their car on the way home. Personally, I don't drink my protein shake on the way home from the the gym, I wait until I am home. So for some people I don't think that would be an issue.

Also, I think your product would appeal to the people who go to the gym at night, as it is a dessert. Just a thought.

This brings back some insight on the gym thought. What I think about it is this:

There are a ton of different kinds of people who to go gyms. The gym isn't just for hardcore bodybuilders anymore, it's for everyone. Some people don't bother for buying protein supplements at gyms, some people do regularly. Some people drink in the car, some people drink in the gym. Some people don't even care about what they eat. Saying that my product would be horrible/perfect for attracting customers at a gym would both be foolish. I think that it would be a good channel, but not the perfect channel for making sales. However I'm still not sure on my USP as of yet.

And that really is a valuable thought! People are way more likely to grab some dessert after dinner. Thanks!

 

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[TJPB]

Why Whey...it's mostly low quality and dairy based. There are so many other options.

 

[DrJake]

Why Whey...it's mostly low quality and dairy based. There are so many other options.

Ice cream is inherently dairy-based, so it makes sense to use whey because it's also dairy based.
This helps it taste good and makes it possible to integrate it with the icecream.
Whey is also cost effective and widely used.

I'd love to hear any other options you can recommend though. Thanks for the thought!

 

[TJPB]

Ice cream is inherently dairy-based, so it makes sense to use whey because it's also dairy based.
This helps it taste good and makes it possible to integrate it with the icecream.
Whey is also cost effective and widely used.

I'd love to hear any other options you can recommend though. Thanks for the thought!

Coconut Milk ice cream infused with Casein or Rice or Pea protein. There are so many people dropping dairy completely. Look at the success SoDelicious has had.

 

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[Jakeeck]

Someone mentioned earlier that no one will want to eat ice cream after a workout in their car on the way home. Personally, I don't drink my protein shake on the way home from the the gym, I wait until I am home. So for some people I don't think that would be an issue.

Also, I think your product would appeal to the people who go to the gym at night, as it is a dessert. Just a thought.

Well when I made that comment it was because he was talking about selling these in a gym (at least that's the impression I got), like how certain gym chains have their own smoothie bars where you can grab a protein smoothie and drink it on the way home.

I think the main factor in whether or not I would buy your protein ice cream would be how cheap it is. Buying a 5lb tub of a quality brand of protein usually lasts me 1.5-2 months for $40-$55. I really doubt you could produce a protein ice cream that will get me more protein bang for my buck, which is most important to me, and not taste. However, if it did taste REALLY good, I might be willing to shell out the extra cash. If it tastes like something where I could buy some low-fat ice cream and throw a scoop of protein in it, then no way I'm buying.

 

[DrJake]

Coconut Milk ice cream infused with Casein or Rice or Pea protein. There are so many people dropping dairy completely. Look at the success SoDelicious has had.

This is a cool idea. I've actually added casein protein powder to my testing already. I don't plan on using rice or pea protein because of taste reasons. In fact I don't really plan on pursuing the dairy-free niche to start, but this could be a future project. Thanks man!

Well when I made that comment it was because he was talking about selling these in a gym (at least that's the impression I got), like how certain gym chains have their own smoothie bars where you can grab a protein smoothie and drink it on the way home.

I think the main factor in whether or not I would buy your protein ice cream would be how cheap it is. Buying a 5lb tub of a quality brand of protein usually lasts me 1.5-2 months for $40-$55. I really doubt you could produce a protein ice cream that will get me more protein bang for my buck, which is most important to me, and not taste. However, if it did taste REALLY good, I might be willing to shell out the extra cash. If it tastes like something where I could buy some low-fat ice cream and throw a scoop of protein in it, then no way I'm buying.

This is the main reason I am not shooting for an "alternative to protein powder" product, but instead an "alternative to ice-cream" product. Just because someone doesn't like the taste of protein powder does not mean they are willing to pay premium prices for protein ice-cream. However, if someone doesn't like the inferior nutrition of ice-cream, that means they could be interested in a premium high-protein alternative. I think if I pursued only the fitness market, for example what you layed out in your post, I would have to drive incredibly low margins to survive.



One thing I'm debating is fat and sugar content. Both fat and sugar are detrimental to health in excess. What do you guys think is more attractive, low sugar or low fat? I'm beginning to lean towards the low-fat end. My competitor advertises the low sugar strategy, so low fat would be a unique approach. Also my competitor uses xylitol (What they use to substitute sugar), which has a laxative effect and can cause diarrhea. There are a couple reports of this on twitter from their product.

 

[Justin.p]

Someone mentioned earlier that no one will want to eat ice cream after a workout in their car on the way home. Personally, I don't drink my protein shake on the way home from the the gym, I wait until I am home. So for some people I don't think that would be an issue.

Also, I think your product would appeal to the people who go to the gym at night, as it is a dessert. Just a thought.

I agree - AFAIK optimal is getting a load of carbs after the workout to replenish one's glycogen store - and protein 30~60mins later - hence it is the protocol I follow.

Not to mention if gyms sold it from freezers on a popsicle stick - plenty of people would be happy to chow the whole thing down while walking to their car! I guess you can't make assumptions and just have to try it out on a small scale if possible and see if people like it.

Personally I HATE most protein products because they are loaded with artificial sweeteners. I don't want to take any risks with potential neurotoxins, even if it is a long shot. I'd rather get just enough sweetness from milk sugar (lactose), which is pretty low glycemic, and possibly a pinch of cane sugar or fruit (fructose).

 

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[DrJake]

I agree - AFAIK optimal is getting a load of carbs after the workout to replenish one's glycogen store - and protein 30~60mins later - hence it is the protocol I follow.

Not to mention if gyms sold it from freezers on a popsicle stick - plenty of people would be happy to chow the whole thing down while walking to their car! I guess you can't make assumptions and just have to try it out on a small scale if possible and see if people like it.

Personally I HATE most protein products because they are loaded with artificial sweeteners. I don't want to take any risks with potential neurotoxins, even if it is a long shot. I'd rather get just enough sweetness from milk sugar (lactose), which is pretty low glycemic, and possibly a pinch of cane sugar or fruit (fructose).

I follow a similar protocol. I always eat a big meal heaped with carbs and protein after a workout. This could be another reason to run the fat-free route instead of sugar-free.

One think I plan to do is have reduced sugar though. Stevia is a natural sweetener that was recommended to me that I may use.

 

[allthatjazz]

I found this today, and thought it might be helpful.

 

[RealOG]

Three things you should consider:

• Fitness fanatics' palates are incredibly forgiving. Just because the average person thinks it taste like gasoline, doesn't mean it won't appeal to the fitness community.
• Protein shakes aren't just for post workout. Many active bodybuilders supplement two or three times a day. We are always looking for a new delivery system.
• Right before bed, slow absorbing protein is a great supplement. This times perfecting with a dessert style protein supplement. Casein has a slow absorption rate and is among the cheapest proteins on the market, while still having a relatively high bio-value.

 

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[DrJake]

I found this today, and thought it might be helpful.

Thanks man! I didn't know Enlightened was that established. I plan on going the ice-cream-tub route instead of the fudge-bar route, which is one way I differ from them. Also, I plan on using natural high-powered sweeteners (They don't do this) such as stevia to make up for the lack of sugar and help give it a classic-ice-cream taste. The increased fiber is a interesting angle and I'll look into that once I have a good MVP set-up. Overall this is an awesome insight to know how good enlightened has been doing with their strategy, and it will be fun to climb aboard with a different one! Also this proves that this should be sold in the grocery isle and not just in the supplement isle.

Three things you should consider:

• Fitness fanatics' palates are incredibly forgiving. Just because the average person thinks it taste like gasoline, doesn't mean it won't appeal to the fitness community.
• Protein shakes aren't just for post workout. Many active bodybuilders supplement two or three times a day. We are always looking for a new delivery system.
• Right before bed, slow absorbing protein is a great supplement. This times perfecting with a dessert style protein supplement. Casein has a slow absorption rate and is among the cheapest proteins on the market, while still having a relatively high bio-value.

• This is so true! I actually did a small experiment with some friends (about 10 people) early in the prototyping stage. The ice-cream didn't taste as good as I've gotten it to taste now. The really interesting thing is only ONE of my friends rated the protein-ice-cream a 5/5 in taste. (The experiment was a double-blind experiment with regular ice-cream and my protein-ice-cream, so they didn't know which one they got) The interesting thing is the one person who rated it a 5/5 was the only person who worked out in the entire group.
• This is awesome to hear. Another reason to land in the grocery isle.
• I've actually been raising the casein:whey protein ratio in my prototyping. This has a lot of benefits and it's good to hear another one. Thanks!

 

[DrJake]

8/18/14

My entire view on entrepreneurship has changed in these last two months. When I first came up with my protein ice-cream idea, I immediately began dreaming of all the money I could make. I could already see the lambo, the mansion, and the pool. I "knew" my idea was an instant winner. I read a few of MJs threads on value and decided "Yup, it's a high-value idea. Next!" I swept that under the rug as if it were just one step in the entrepreneurial journey.

Boy was I wrong. Value isn't one step of the journey, it IS the journey. The sad thing is that I constantly see newer (and older) entrepreneurs go on with their endlessly regurgitated fitness blogging, (No hate on bloggers), their how-to books they completely copied from these blogs, and their hustle for "passive income from home!", and going on with this crap and seeing no results. The simple matter-of-fact truth is, they're not bringing anything new to the table! There's no value! These are the kinds of businesses you can start from a 7-step guide on any finance blog in the world! You'd be better of financially taking a job at McDonalds than starting another "alpha dog fitness" blog. (Not saying it's impossible, there's always new stuff to teach through blogs ) The point is, and this is what I've learned, the REAL success comes from genuinely trying to improve the world in a new and positive way.

Money isn't the only thing that motivates me to continue this project anymore.

I SINCERELY believe that a natural, high-protein ice-cream can help people. Help people lose weight. Help people build muscle. Help people eat healthier foods. Help people eat dessert without destroying their body. Help null the obesity epidemic. Help people help themselves.

Everything I do in my new business is in favor of these values. I know that what I'm working on can do all of these things and more, and helping people, is what value, to me, truly is.

 

[DrJake]

8/25/14

High school started up again today. It's a real pain in the a** but I'll push through it. I have a little less time each day to work on this but I can make time. I've been trying to make networking and reading a regular habit, too, after reading The Power of Habit. I've got a good MVP setup now, after a decade of technical issues. In the MVP there's a ton of sugar still, but no fat and lots of protein. The ingredients isn't all-natural yet, either, but that'll be an easy problem to fix. Basically I just have to test and optimize, test and optimize till I have an awesome product. I'm finally gonna start planning on experimenting with that football team, and highschool just gives me so many more people that can help me.

Oh, and it's my birthday.

 

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[ebms]

Look up protein sludge OP. Recipes are out there but no retail product exists yet.

Great progress by the way! Especially for a 15 year old

 

[DrJake]

Finally got some good freezing properties on this. The protein used to absorb all the flavors and the ice-cream got rock-hard after being in the freezer for a while. Took a bit but that's fixed and I'm finished with all of the technical crap now.

At this point the ice-cream has a normal amount of sugar, low fat, and of course high protein. It tastes good and has awesome ice-cream texture. Now the goal is to sell, sell and sell, and of COURSE to optimize the ice-cream as I do so, so it's healthy and natural.

One of my teachers wants to try a sample next week. Imma bring a big batch, cause another teacher hinted me that teachers often talk together about these kinds of things with each other, and if she shares it with others that means more feedback.

 

[Choate]

Finally got some good freezing properties on this. The protein used to absorb all the flavors and the ice-cream got rock-hard after being in the freezer for a while. Took a bit but that's fixed and I'm finished with all of the technical crap now.

At this point the ice-cream has a normal amount of sugar, low fat, and of course high protein. It tastes good and has awesome ice-cream texture. Now the goal is to sell, sell and sell, and of COURSE to optimize the ice-cream as I do so, so it's healthy and natural.

One of my teachers wants to try a sample next week. Imma bring a big batch, cause another teacher hinted me that teachers often talk together about these kinds of things with each other, and if she shares it with others that means more feedback.

I've been pretty into lifting since I was your age (14) and I'm 22 now. Played varsity, college sports, etc. and the gym is a huge part of my life.

I see sugar as a worst enemy than fat. Unless its saturated fat. Then we have two equal enemies.

What problems do you encounter by making this a low sugar product? There's plenty of no sugar added ice creams out there already, made by famous companies like Edy's.

And you must think, you are not only competing against other ice cream products, you are competing against all protein/post workout products. I've been following a strict regimen myself for some years now and your product sounds like a Weight Watchers ice cream pop. Sure, it may be better than the real thing for these people who are addicted to sweets/cravings, but as someone who can avoid that stuff altogether, its not something I want.

A dedicated athlete is not going to turn to protein ice cream regularly when there are better alternatives out there.

My protein with a cup of milk doesn't taste bad. It actually tastes really good. And there is less than a gram of sugar, almost no fat, especially if I use skim milk. With that said, why would I switch to ice cream? I won't, so to me this is more of a "oh that's cool" kind of item that I would try if a friend had it, not something I'd regularly buy. That means life time value of this type of customer won't be too high. Which means more $$$ towards getting new customers.

You will be competing for customers against giants like Weight Watchers, who may not have protein ice cream, but still have substitutes for unhealthy snacks with loyal customer bases.

With that said, I think your progress is great, and the fact that you're getting it into the real world and having people try it is even better. Its something I'd love to try once, and perhaps from there, I could be convinced.

Lastly, do not pull a veil over your own eyes by only testing it on your local school, friends, and listening to encouragement on this board. Set up some Facebook ads, try to reach people you don't know, get some presales, offer to send a sample for an honest review to some magazines, people, etc. Get a real outsiders view of what you're making.

 

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[CommonCents]

With paleo going more mainstream, something like this could be a great selling point. Look at what happened to the greek yogurts. Also, healthcare patient feeding would also be interested. They need to get calories and protein in many types of patients for recovery.

 

[AubreyJ]

With paleo going more mainstream, something like this could be a great selling point. Look at what happened to the greek yogurts. Also, healthcare patient feeding would also be interested. They need to get calories and protein in many types of patients for recovery.

This is a good idea- targeting specific diets like paleo or evan vegan. I am a vegan who lifts and goes to the gym 7 days a week and not only are there not too many options as far as protein powder goes, but ice cream products are limited as well. You could be tapping into a market with a lot of demand by offering products for specific diets. I can guarantee you I would be a customer if there was a vegan option.

 

[Silverhawk851]

"Work like there is someone working twenty-four hours a day to take it all away from you." - Mark Cuban

The value here is not in the idea, but in the attitude behind it. This quote signifies that Good on you, keep the hustle up.
You can have anything your willing work for.

 

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[DrJake]

Don't be afraid to share your product with friends and family early on. The feedback may be crap and biased most of the time, but when you ask for referrals or leads to possible customers they can't sugarcoat that. Your friends and family can be the first to help you land your first REAL customers.

Thanks for the posts and insights guys.

 

[JahvonCreamCone]

Idea sounds great.

 

[Deleted21704]

Yeah I'm vegetarian and protein options are scarce. I'd definitely be a customer if sugar could be kept in check...vegan would be great too in order to avoid routine dairy consumption.

 

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[DrJake]

Good ideas guys. The vegan route is definitely a smart one. I'm assuming milk products (milk protein and cream) are non-vegan so I haven't gotten there yet.

Right now I'm trying to get the icecream to 100% natural. The paleo diet would be extremely difficult because that diet requires no dairy, and I can't think of any non-dairy proteins that would even work in ice-cream. Who wants rice-flavored icecream? It's a good idea in all honesty, but I think that wouldn't be the best diet to pursue in my knowledge atm. If anyone has ideas please share!

I've got an MVP going with milk protein isolates, some effective artificial ingredients and high-ish sugar.

My CURRENT goals:

1. Start using some lower-level marketing techniques (sales letters, flyers, cold-calling, social) to land first sales, unveil target markets and get feedback. I'll probably use some creative copywriting strategies.
2. Come up with a brand name and apply some branding basics.
3. I ordered blank ice-cream containers. Once I get them I'll stick some nutritional info on there with a brand name. (Ghetto as F but whatever. Doesn't need to be perfect yet.)
4. Lower the sugar and calories of the MVP. Easy problem to fix.

 

[DrJake]

I'm thinking about calling it ToneCone. Thoughts?

 

[DrJake]

Going with "Redefine". Landed my first local sales today. Sold for a whopping $7 a pint. Now to see if I have any return customers. People are definitely interested in this one way or the other, haha. Some people absolutely REFUSE to believe that you can possibly mix protein and ice-cream together. It's amazing how people think.

Anyway, need to improve the smell and general taste properties. Also consistency. It tastes great now, just not like classic vanilla. I'll probably start using legit Madagascan vanilla pods instead of gallons of vanilla extract. Duh.

Also need some new labels to print out that don't get soaked away on the packaging from the ice-cream condensation. Apparently paper isn't the best idea.

 

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[DrJake]

I'm still in this guys. I've been bogged down ALOT with school and work, but I've cut down my work hours quite a bit since this week, so I should have more time to visit the forum.

I've sold quite a few more ice-creams at my school. I have a couple repeat customers, which proves the stuff tastes great now, and there really is a demand for this stuff.

I've got pretty good packaging now, with commercial-tier sticker printers and great labels.

I'm pretty familiar with a lot of FDA regs and have real-world experience with my job. I'm going to have a great looking flyer finished this week and I'm going to launch my first local marketing campaign. Wish me luck guys! Any tips?

 

[DrJake]

Selling ice-cream door to door isn't the best tactic these days. Turns out people don't like putting stuff into their mouth from people they don't know.

So far I have ghetto labels, nutri and ingredient lists, pints, recipe great etc.

I'll probably start talking to some gym owners this weekend. I'm even thinking about a website. Any other ideas on how to market this thing?