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Help... caught in Alibaba hell!!! LOL

ShannaGrace

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Any advise on how to navigate this system? I actually thought of trying to come up with a more user friendly interface, but that is another thread.

I have spent countless hours on Alibaba, searching, posting buying requests and responding to quotes. I think am being very clear in what I am sourcing and even including pictures and I still get replys for things which don't meet my needs or questions, that were already answered in the request. And then when I do find something I think will work, the cost for a sample is 2000% higher than the actual item. i.e a ball that cost 0.30, is 60.00 for a sample. Aliexpress hasn't proven much better.

I am sourcing SOLID (hollow is everywhere) rubber balls with a 1/2 hole in the middle, the size of a tennis ball, but smaller or larger will be needed in the future. It is for a Dog "throwing toy" I am bringing to market. I have a sample ball, that was purchased at Petsmart, but it no longer available in the store or on-line.

Right now, I am really not trying to purchase 500+ balls, as we are still in the testing/launching stage, but the alternatives, are not cost effective.

Any sources for alternatives would be greatly appreciated. I would love to find some USA wholesaler's.I know that is a wealth of information here in this forum.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.
 
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Vigilante

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There's ALWAYS a third solution.

How about changing the question? How about sourcing the balls complete, and figuring out how to do the hole punch separately? Source the balls, and get them drilled locally.
 

1step

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And then when I do find something I think will work, the cost for a sample is 2000% higher than the actual item. i.e a ball that cost 0.30, is 60.00 for a sample.

They are probably including shipping in the cost. This is a reasonable cost for a sample.
 

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Is this for a prototype? You could always drill a hole in a regular tennis ball, and then fill it up with something of your choice.

Making your own solution may be the easiest until you have everything figured out.
 
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DrkSide

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Yes. I have one of these, that I am currently using, but for marketing it isn't feasible to use another companies product and those Kong Balls are pricey. I would love to find out where they are manufactured and get my own version at some later point.
Can you use the Kong balls for proof of concept? Even if you loose money you can prove that going after a larger order will be profitable later.
 
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ShannaGrace

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Is this for a prototype? You could always drill a hole in a regular tennis ball, and then fill it up with something of your choice.

Making your own solution may be the easiest until you have everything figured out.

Thank you, for your suggestion. I may have to try that. I guess my dilemma is that I already have one, just as I wanted. It is manufactured in China and distributed by Petsmart, but they are no longer available in the store or online, so I figured, I could find them without much trouble LOL The language barrier seems to be the biggest challenge. And I am not sure how they system works. It seems the 'buying request" is just blasted out there based on some wide parameters, no matter how specific you are in your request.

The hollow ones are available with the hole already drilled, which I can use for this initial stage of testing, but in the long run, I want something more substantial and with more bounce. Would also like it to float, for water play.
 

ShannaGrace

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They are probably including shipping in the cost. This is a reasonable cost for a sample.
Wow, Really is shipping that much from China? On aliexpress, from China the shipping is about 3.75 for 2 balls with rope, so I am surprised that a few sample balls, which aren't special ordered, would be that high. But then I have never ordered from China before.
 
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DrkSide

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Yes I can. :)
Then order the Kong balls to make a sample/promotional product and continue looking for manufactures.

Have you tried the Buying Request feature of Alibaba?
 

ShannaGrace

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Wow, Really is shipping that much from China? On aliexpress, from China the shipping is about 3.75 for 2 balls with rope, so I am surprised that a few sample balls, which aren't special ordered, would be that high. But then I have never ordered from China before.
I could understand if I was asking for something that wasn't already in there inventory.
 

ShannaGrace

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Then order the Kong balls to make a sample/promotional product and continue looking for manufactures.

Have you tried the Buying Request feature of Alibaba?
Yes, that is what this thread was originally about.. the deep dark crazy maze of Alibaba and how time consuming it is to actually get what you are looking for, no matter how clear you think you are stating your needs. Sort of like being in a dysfunctional relationship, where one speaks english and the other Chinese. LOL :-D

I was looking of hints on how to navigate the system better or other source that others, here on the forum might be aware of.
 
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ShannaGrace

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There's ALWAYS a third solution.

How about changing the question? How about sourcing the balls complete, and figuring out how to do the hole punch separately? Source the balls, and get them drilled locally.
Yes, there is and a forth and a fifth... thanks for the reminder. This little snag isn't going to get me. I know they are out there. And just today, I walked into the .99 only store and found balls on a rope.. for .99, so although they aren't ultimately what I would like for testing and not what I would take to marketing, they will do at this stage of the game. Which is getting them into the hands of some Dog owners and getting feedback. :)
 

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Yes, that is what this thread was originally about.. the deep dark crazy maze of Alibaba and how time consuming it is to actually get what you are looking for, no matter how clear you think you are stating your needs. Sort of like being in a dysfunctional relationship, where one speaks english and the other Chinese. LOL :-D

I was looking of hints on how to navigate the system better or other source that others, here on the forum might be aware of.


Nice!... you have barriers. Doesn't get much better than that, said the CENTSer. :)
 
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ShannaGrace

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Nice!... you have barriers. Doesn't get much better than that, said the CENTSer. :)
Yes, it seems there are some walls to jump over. I am a SPARTAN.. I can do it. LOL
 
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Walter Hay

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Yes, that is what this thread was originally about.. the deep dark crazy maze of Alibaba and how time consuming it is to actually get what you are looking for, no matter how clear you think you are stating your needs. Sort of like being in a dysfunctional relationship, where one speaks english and the other Chinese. LOL :-D

I was looking of hints on how to navigate the system better or other source that others, here on the forum might be aware of.
I began importing in 1987, well before Alibaba started, but I went on to use B2B sites for sourcing until I retired. With all that experience I can tell you I would not recommend Alibaba as a sourcing platform.

If you choose to do so, the first thing you should do is set up some disposable email addresses, otherwise your mailbox will be crammed for months on end with irrelevant promotional emails. You should also avoid giving the impression that you are a single operator, or a newbie.

Few people, even many who declare themselves to be experts, know how Alibaba really works. They recommend using Alibaba because they see others recommend it, and they see the name whenever they do a Google search for product sourcing.

Regardless of which B2B sourcing site you use, it is near impossible to locate the actual manufacturer of an existing product unless it is a very commonplace or extremely popular item.

The only possibility I see for you to locate the manufacturer is to contact World Trade Centers in major Chinese cities and request information manufacturers of rubber balls.

Regards,
Walter
 

contract

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The companies on Alibaba LOVE, and I mean LOVE to ask you a ton of questions.

Even if it's the simplest thing in the world...

Most won't give out samples, or if they do, they'll bump up the price to a crazy amount.

The problem I've often had is not getting a response back, or quotes being ignored.

You're best bet is to make them yourself or locally at a higher cost.

Validate the idea, then once you have full trust in your product order in volume at the MOQ.

If you can't find a low enough MOQ on Alibaba, look elsewhere. In terms of volume those vendors are pure bulk volume buys.

If you're not ordering in bulk it's super pricey. Sometimes even 5-20x higher than items made locally.

......

In your case however.

Here's what you need to do.

Buy Tennis balls, 48 of them is plenty.

Take a drill and put them in a table top vice grip.

Drill out that center hole.

Purchase rubber cement/any sort of filling material. (Trust me, there are plenty that are mix/pour)

Set in a rubber silicone center tube. Pour filler around it.

Let them dry. You could make 48 in a day or less..

Use hand-made quality to your advantage when it comes to pricing.
 
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Walter Hay

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The companies on Alibaba LOVE, and I mean LOVE to ask you a ton of questions.

Even if it's the simplest thing in the world...

Most won't give out samples, or if they do, they'll bump up the price to a crazy amount.

The problem I've often had is not getting a response back, or quotes being ignored.

You're best bet is to make them yourself or locally at a higher cost.

Validate the idea, then once you have full trust in your product order in volume at the MOQ.

If you can't find a low enough MOQ on Alibaba, look elsewhere. In terms of volume those vendors are pure bulk volume buys.

If you're not ordering in bulk it's super pricey. Sometimes even 5-20x higher than items made locally.
I like the way you thought outside the square and gave a practical suggestion. Although I teach overseas sourcing and importing, I never hesitate to recommend local production of at all possible.

Regarding Alibaba processes -- Yes they do ask questions. many of them seemingly irrelevant but the idea is to build a rapport with you.

Lack of response is common when newbies communicate with suppliers on any B2B platform. The reason is simple - they know that the inquiry comes from a newbie and they hate dealing with people who don't know what they are doing. They think a) Another opportunist looking for freebies, or b) This person is going to need too much help.

To help your chances of getting a reply, newbies should follow these rules:

Remember, it is not so much a matter of what to say, as what not to say.
  • Don't mention that you are new to the business.
  • Don't tell them you are a sole trader.
  • Don't offer your business plan like you would to a supplier in the USA.
  • Don't ask what is their MOQ. They will tell you soon enough. That is when you might start working on them to supply a lot less.
  • Don't offer your tax or business registration details.
  • Don't ask for samples early in your communications with them, and don't expect them to be free.
  • Don't haggle. Most "experts" will tell you to do so, but there are good reasons why you should not and I teach why you don't need to. This issue is even more critical in the early stages. If you try to talk the price down early on you will suddenly find no more emails arrive.
There are a few things you should say:
  • Tell them you are an established importer.
  • Tell them quality is important to you.
  • Ask them for a copy of their catalog, preferably a printed version.
  • Give them your business name. Don't have one? Invent one.
Finally, look at places other than Alibaba and the other popular B2B sourcing sites.
 

maleek

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I would just like to add some pointers, in addition to Walter's post above mine:

1) Make a throw away email account, you may be added to email lists and potentially receive countless emails a day.

2) Fake it until you make it! (sad but true) -Pretend to be your own Secretary. It allows you to defer immediate decision making since technically, the decision has to be made by your higher ups. In contrary to Walter's post (I'm not trying to start an argument, or debate, simply stating my experience) most suppliers will gladly send over samples, for you to inspect quality. I think they know its common practice. Just mention to them that your boss has to review the product before they put in an order. You'll have to come to terms that you will end up paying more for a few samples since your MOQ is low.

3) Some trading companies disguise themselves as manufacturers. Avoid this by only dealing with GOLD suppliers. With onsite checks. This means that a 3rd party has inspected their factory and they are indeed a legal existence. Their company profile will actually say Manufacturer, or trading company. Sometimes both.

5) NEVER make them lose face. If you make it seem as though they're at fault, you are pretty much ensuring that you get screwed over. Essentially never blame them for anything. If they screw up, tell them, but tell them politely. You'd be surprised at how innovative they actually are. Not an easy process, and they're not likely to get it right the first time (in general)

6) Whoever mentions price first loses... :)

Hopefully you can use these steps to find yourself a manufacturer that can make the product you are after. I've never done it in reverse where I have sent out buying requests. One last tip is pay attention to those who answer immediately to your requests. It usually means they're hungry for your business, and willing to satisfy you. Lastly always deal with paypal and/or alibaba's escrow service, when beginning deals with a supplier. I'm sure thousands of people (myself included) have been ripped off by suppliers, by not using some third party payment service in the beginning. If they refuse to use paypal/escrow, move on to a different supplier.
 
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Walter Hay

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I would just like to add some pointers, in addition to Walter's post above mine:

1) Make a throw away email account, you may be added to email lists and potentially receive countless emails a day.

2) Fake it until you make it! (sad but true) -Pretend to be your own Secretary. It allows you to defer immediate decision making since technically, the decision has to be made by your higher ups. In contrary to Walter's post (I'm not trying to start an argument, or debate, simply stating my experience) most suppliers will gladly send over samples, for you to inspect quality. I think they know its common practice. Just mention to them that your boss has to review the product before they put in an order. You'll have to come to terms that you will end up paying more for a few samples since your MOQ is low.

3) Some trading companies disguise themselves as manufacturers. Avoid this by only dealing with GOLD suppliers. With onsite checks. This means that a 3rd party has inspected their factory and they are indeed a legal existence. Their company profile will actually say Manufacturer, or trading company. Sometimes both.

5) NEVER make them lose face. If you make it seem as though they're at fault, you are pretty much ensuring that you get screwed over. Essentially never blame them for anything. If they screw up, tell them, but tell them politely. You'd be surprised at how innovative they actually are. Not an easy process, and they're not likely to get it right the first time (in general)

6) Whoever mentions price first loses... :)

Hopefully you can use these steps to find yourself a manufacturer that can make the product you are after. I've never done it in reverse where I have sent out buying requests. One last tip is pay attention to those who answer immediately to your requests. It usually means they're hungry for your business, and willing to satisfy you. Lastly always deal with paypal and/or alibaba's escrow service, when beginning deals with a supplier. I'm sure thousands of people (myself included) have been ripped off by suppliers, by not using some third party payment service in the beginning. If they refuse to use paypal/escrow, move on to a different supplier.
What an excellent post. In relation to samples, I am not wanting to argue either. I quite agree that most suppliers will gladly send samples.

Walter
 
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Walter Hay

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Hi ShannaGrace,

I got a notice about a reply on this thread, so I came back to look. When I saw that you did not appear to have made much progress, I decided to do a quick search of one of my favorite B2B sourcing sites.

Within 3 minutes I found hard rubber balls, complete with hole, various sizes, can be made to your specs. with no mold charge, any Pantone color, MOQ 100 pcs. Unlike most manufacturers they will accept payment via PayPal.

Prices quoted are way below many of the prices you will find on Alibaba, and half the best price. Also on Alibaba the MOQ is 1,000 - 5,000. I suggest it would pay you to buy 100 @ 15c each, because the freight on them will be not a lot more than you have been quoted for a single sample.

If you like to start a conversation with me I will give you a link to the factory's website. They meet all my requirements for a safe business to deal with.

Walter
 

ddall

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Walter,

Would you care to share your fav B2B sourcing site that is not Alibaba, DHgate, etc?

Thank you, love your posts.
 
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Walter Hay

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Walter,

Would you care to share your fav B2B sourcing site that is not Alibaba, DHgate, etc?

Thank you, love your posts.
Sorry if it seems mean, but I don't publish them online. It is not just a matter of selling my book. There is a lot more to safe sourcing than using safe sites. I list 28 sites in my book, the majority being for countries other than China, and provide screen shots for a couple of them to help newbies work through the online forms. I also explain how to use some of the user-unfriendly sites.

As you can see from my AMA thread, I am providing a huge amount of specific information that could help anyone getting started in importing, depending on their level of knowledge and experience. I have also provided specific and detailed help to a number of members who contacted me direct.

I feel a sense of responsibility regarding offering advice to people who may rely on that advice when risking their very limited capital. I don't want to have them think that a safe site is all they need to know. I have been in this game for most of my life, and I have seen countless attempts fail. I want those who rely on me to succeed.
 

Walter Hay

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Hi ShannaGrace,

I got a notice about a reply on this thread, so I came back to look. When I saw that you did not appear to have made much progress, I decided to do a quick search of one of my favorite B2B sourcing sites.

Within 3 minutes I found hard rubber balls, complete with hole, various sizes, can be made to your specs. with no mold charge, any Pantone color, MOQ 100 pcs. Unlike most manufacturers they will accept payment via PayPal.

Prices quoted are way below many of the prices you will find on Alibaba, and half the best price. Also on Alibaba the MOQ is 1,000 - 5,000. I suggest it would pay you to buy 100 @ 15c each, because the freight on them will be not a lot more than you have been quoted for a single sample.

If you like to start a conversation with me I will give you a link to the factory's website. They meet all my requirements for a safe business to deal with.

Walter
Hi ShannaGrace,

I have replied to your conversation and provided the link as promised. The balls illustrated on their home page don't have holes, but I know they produce them with holes, so just tell them exactly what you want. Their set up cost is very low.

Make sure you read my earlier post about how to approach a supplier to avoid seeming like a newbie.

Regards,
Walter
 
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ShannaGrace

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Thanks everyone. Just getting back to this thread. Great info from you all.
 

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