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Why newbies should avoid Alibaba, DHGate, Tradekey, Aliexpress, madeinchina.com, EC21, TTNet.net,

Walter Hay

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These are not the only B2B sourcing sites that I teach my students to avoid. Most of the well-known sites present the same problems for newbies wanting to source products overseas.

Here are a few reasons why:

1. They all have very similar, but highly deficient verification systems.

2. They all use rating badges or flags that give completely worthless indications of a supplier’s reliability, trustworthiness, capabilities and service quality.

3. They all accept listings from traders and wholesalers masquerading as manufacturers.

4. Many of them do not ban suppliers from listing big brands, counterfeits or knockoffs.

Now I will explain some of these points in more detail:

1. Verification. The verification process used by almost all the popular sourcing sites involves a visit to their premises and a look at their business registration certificate. Result? They prove that the business actually exists! The premises may be a rent-for-a-day office, and the operators of the business may have another 3, or even 10 business names they will use one by one when that inspected one gets caught out scamming people.

2. Rating badges. Gold Supplier, Gold Star, Premium Member etc. etc. These status symbols are all bought ― they are not earned. Result? The business actually exists and they have also spent money to make people believe that they are more trustworthy, reliable, capable etc., than others without those badges. I would never rely on status symbols such as Gold Supplier, but there are some other ratings that are achieved also by spending money, but they result in a genuine rating. One example is on Alibaba where you will find a few who display a blue circle with a red tick. I would have no qualms about buying from one of those, provided they also accept payment via escrow, but you need to read the audit report to see if they are actually manufacturers.

3. Manufacturers? The vast majority of suppliers listed on the popular sites identify themselves as manufacturers. Most of them are not. They can be very convincing. They may have a website that shows their factory, complete with production machinery. They may say they are willing to modify products to suit you, or make new products for you, but serious research is needed to work out if they are genuine manufacturers. If they are wholesalers or traders in disguise, you are throwing away a lot of money if you buy through them. They will never be able to give you the low prices that you can get from genuine manufacturers.

4. Counterfeits or Big Brands. If B2B sites allow vendors to offer products that infringe intellectual property rights, that shows how little they care about or control the integrity of the suppliers they list. Selling big brand items or counterfeits can look like a very fast lane to take, but it can be a fast lane to financial ruin and in some cases prison. At the very least it can result in your name and address being flagged by Customs and every subsequent shipment to you being delayed for thorough inspection.

If you have questions on other subjects relating to sourcing or importing, please go to my AMA thread
Sharing my lifetime experience in export/import. Product sourcing specialist. That is where I will from time to time post general information posts that I believe will help many.
 
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MoneyDoc

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Is there any alternatives you would recommend for those that are new?

I've been using alibaba for 3+ years now. No issues thus far.

But I agree, I have a friend who just got into the importing game, he already got scammed $200 US by a chinese supplier off of alibaba, he was a beginner so he didn't know you never use western union with these suppliers.
 

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You have to build trust in any relationship. I could just as easily get ripped off ordering from an American wholesale company.

In that case (an American buying from an American company) you would have recourse.
 
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Vigilante

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We did get scammed last year by an Asian manufacturer. They were a real manufacturer, but they intended to either take our money and never ship us, or ship differently and much later than what they indicated when we wired them cash. We had to take extraordinary measures to recover our funds. It is achievable, but very difficult.
 

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So what is your recommended method for getting in touch with actual manufacturers in china
 

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Walter Hay

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His recommended method is to get you to buy his ebook.
So why not?

At least for a very small amount of money newbies can avoid some of the costly mistakes that many on the forum have reported that they have made. Already two posts on this thread report being scammed. My book is probably the cheapest insurance anyone can buy.
 
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Walter Hay

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So what is your recommended method for getting in touch with actual manufacturers in china
Unlike most experts I don't just say "Look on xyz.com to find suppliers." I do have some sites that I recommend, These are sites where the work has been done for you in sorting out the genuine manufacturers from those that are falsely claiming to be manufacturers.

As Ecom man suspected I don't publish them online because I hope you will buy my book, but as strange as it may sound the main reason is that I do not want to be responsible for failures. Most experts could not care less. I am retired, I don't need the money, and what I am doing is primarily to keep my brain active after my health-enforced retirement. And.... I do care.

If my posts don't give value to the fastlane community Ecom man will no doubt be joined by swarms of others in scoffing at what I say, but so far I have received an average of 7 likes per day since I joined up. Ecom man has averaged 5.5.

I will within a day or two publish a brief outline of what you need to know before you start sourcing products overseas.

Meanwhile if you have any questions related to sourcing or importing, just post you questions on my AMA thread
Sharing my lifetime experience in export/import. Product sourcing specialist.

Walter
 
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Walter Hay

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Is there any alternatives you would recommend for those that are new?

I've been using alibaba for 3+ years now. No issues thus far.

But I agree, I have a friend who just got into the importing game, he already got scammed $200 US by a chinese supplier off of alibaba, he was a beginner so he didn't know you never use western union with these suppliers.
Alibaba admitted publicly a few years ago that 2336 Gold Suppliers had scammed customers.

If required to pay via WU, just forget it and look for a genuine supplier instead.

Walter
 
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Walter Hay

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Is there any alternatives you would recommend for those that are new?

I've been using alibaba for 3+ years now. No issues thus far.

But I agree, I have a friend who just got into the importing game, he already got scammed $200 US by a chinese supplier off of alibaba, he was a beginner so he didn't know you never use western union with these suppliers.
Please see my reply to Yury Byalik 2 posts before this one.

Walter
 

Walter Hay

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You have to build trust in any relationship. I could just as easily get ripped off ordering from an American wholesale company.
In all my time in the importing business (started in 1987) I have only been ripped off once and that was by a local sales rep for one of the big shipping companies. Sadly this was due to naivety on my part and I had no "legal" grounds on which to fight the ripoff. It cost me in 1987 $6,000, which in today's money is about $12,000.

That scam is still alive and well today, having been passed from that generation of sales reps to the current generation. Naturally I explain it in detail in my book so all those who read it will not lose their shirts. Before you ask, it is a bit too complex to explain in a reasonable length post.
 

Walter Hay

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We did get scammed last year by an Asian manufacturer. They were a real manufacturer, but they intended to either take our money and never ship us, or ship differently and much later than what they indicated when we wired them cash. We had to take extraordinary measures to recover our funds. It is achievable, but very difficult.
A good lesson to learn. Glad you recovered your funds.

You are right about it being difficult. The Chinese legal system is not very user friendly. Even if you make an agency agreement with them and your lawyer includes a clause stating that the laws of ..... (state) govern the agreement, you can rarely enforce such an agreement if the Chinese business does not agree for the case to be heard in your nominated jurisdiction.

When I was exporting to China, I had no written agreement with my agent. It was a gentleman's agreement as many of the most binding contracts in China are. They place enormous importance on trust arising from a good relationship. Even so, I still required payment 50% in advance (that way my costs were covered and I still made a reasonable profit) and the balance on delivery. On two occasions I traveled to China arriving to coincide with the arrival of the shipment and returned home with thousands of dollars in Cash and Travelers Checks. I needed to give them customer support anyway so the trips had another useful purpose.

Walter
 
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Joe Cassandra

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If my posts don't give value to the fastlane community Ecom man will no doubt be joined by swarms of others in scoffing at what I say, but so far I have received an average of 7 likes per day since I joined up. Ecom man has averaged 5.5.

Youve been on the forum for 5 days..Ecom Man for 5 months........we are not idiots. He has a gold thread with almost 1k comments, so he wins if you are starting a competition.

You would sell more books if you are open about everything..none of this "I cant tell you it is in the book " stuff. Most books I have read that the author said that usually turned out to be average to crap books.

@Ecom man gave away everything on his gold thread and you dont think if he said "Hey here is an importing ebook Im selling" dozens to hundreds on this forum would not still buy it?

@AndyBlack has a ton of gold posts on Adwords yet others still say they would buy a course from him on it.

It makes no sense right. Give away it all and you will get it all back...
 

SBS.95

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I'm a "newbie" and have been importing with Alibaba manufacturers. Haven't had any problems yet.

We're talking about dealing with overseas Asian countries where the culture is completely different. I highly doubt you have a secret ebook method that is 100% scam-proof, and even if you did, I highly doubt that you could deliver more value than what came in my mail today for just $4 (free shipping.)
B8twgk5.jpg


Sorry, but I don't like people joining a forum and immediately pitching their ebook. Especially when you haven't given me any value. Scams occur on Alibaba. Big deal. World's a tough place.
 

Walter Hay

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Youve been on the forum for 5 days..Ecom Man for 5 months........we are not idiots. He has a gold thread with almost 1k comments, so he wins if you are starting a competition.

You would sell more books if you are open about everything..none of this "I cant tell you it is in the book " stuff. Most books I have read that the author said that usually turned out to be average to crap books.

@Ecom man gave away everything on his gold thread and you dont think if he said "Hey here is an importing ebook Im selling" dozens to hundreds on this forum would not still buy it?

@AndyBlack has a ton of gold posts on Adwords yet others still say they would buy a course from him on it.

It makes no sense right. Give away it all and you will get it all back...
No it is not a competition. I was not attacking Ecom man I was just responding to his comment. In fact in my first post on my AMA thread I recommended him as one who offers good advice on the product selling side of things.

There is not much that I have held back and the number of thanks is surely a good indication that I am giving value to fastlaners. If you care to click on my signature link and read the testimonials on my site you will see that my buyers think the book is good value too. By the way I am totally unafraid of someone reporting my testimonials to the FTC alleging them to be false. I have documentary proof of each one, plus a huge number that I don't clutter my site with. The one who complains does not get the proof because that is confidential, but the FTC does. If they didn't they would prosecute.

On another forum one poster stated that she had searched hard and was unable to find any bad reviews of my book anywhere on the web, and "this does not happen in the real world". She has now purchased it and I might add her glowing testimonial to my site.

Do you really expect me to publish all 83 pages on the forum? Besides I am selling enough books so I don't need the forum to sell them. I know it is hard for people to grasp the concept, but the price I charge is just sufficient to ward off the hordes of opportunists and lazy people looking for freebies who would swamp me if I gave the book away free. My support capability would plummet, and for me that would be a great loss because I enjoy what I am doing and I enjoy helping new entrepreneurs.

I joined this forum because I liked the concept and I think it is a great place for new entrepreneurs with some get up and go. Its too late for me at my age (75) but that is no reason why I should not contribute.

If you can find any fault with any statement I make in my posts by all means correct me, but don't expect me to give away something that has cost me a lifetime of experience and then see it wasted on a lot of people. I know that some of my buyers don't read the book. One complained about being scammed, but he sourced from a site I advised readers to avoid, he placed a large initial order which I specifically advise against doing, and he paid through Western Union!!! Groan!!! If I gave the book away my name would be ruined because there would be so many more who did not bother to read more than a few pages.

Walter
 
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Walter Hay

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I'm a "newbie" and have been importing with Alibaba manufacturers. Haven't had any problems yet.

We're talking about dealing with overseas Asian countries where the culture is completely different. I highly doubt you have a secret ebook method that is 100% scam-proof, and even if you did, I highly doubt that you could deliver more value than what came in my mail today for just $4 (free shipping.)
B8twgk5.jpg


Sorry, but I don't like people joining a forum and immediately pitching their ebook. Especially when you haven't given me any value. Scams occur on Alibaba. Big deal. World's a tough place.

I clicked the wrong button. See my reply next post.
 

Walter Hay

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I'm a "newbie" and have been importing with Alibaba manufacturers. Haven't had any problems yet.

We're talking about dealing with overseas Asian countries where the culture is completely different. I highly doubt you have a secret ebook method that is 100% scam-proof, and even if you did, I highly doubt that you could deliver more value than what came in my mail today for just $4 (free shipping.)
B8twgk5.jpg


Sorry, but I don't like people joining a forum and immediately pitching their ebook. Especially when you haven't given me any value. Scams occur on Alibaba. Big deal. World's a tough place.
I am glad you have not had problems yet although if your read through my post you would see that the chances of you having actually found genuine manufacturers are not great.

You don't have to tell me anything about different cultures. I have visited China frequently since 1978 when I began exporting to that country and I continued those visits when I began importing in 1987. I understand the Chinese culture very well, and in a chapter of my book I deal specifically with that subject.

I do not claim that my methods are 100% scam proof, but as I posted 3 posts back, I have only had one of my hundreds of book buyers complain about being scammed. Please read it and see why he was scammed. If he had actually read the book and followed my methods my record would so far be 100%.

When I began importing in 1987 my business grew exponentially and I was forced to expand rapidly. As a result I sold franchises of my business in four countries. Most of those franchisees joined up after we began sourcing on the internet, and with orders totaling millions of dollars per year, not a single franchisee was ever scammed by a supplier in China. As a matter of interest only a handful of them ever visited the manufacturers they were dealing with in China, although more of them visited suppliers in other countries where they found it more enjoyable to go for a tax deductible holiday. ( Brazil, Malaysia, Thailand, Turkey, among others.)

Regarding your recently purchased book compared to mine - try comparing apples with apples.

Finally regarding your last statement: "Scams occur on Alibaba. Big deal. World's a tough place." If you can buy at one place where there is a known risk of being scammed, and you can also buy from an alternative place where scams are far less likely which is the sensible one choose?
 

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Walter I think you are peddling your wares in the wrong place. This is a forum where people share. You have everyone from newbies to multimillionaires here. Those just starting out in business to the seasoned entrepreneur and everyone in-between. The common theme throughout is sharing. This is a GIVING community but it seems you are here primarily to TAKE. You are offering titbits to interest people in buying your book. I might be wrong but I don’t see this forum as a place to peddle your wares for profit.


As Ecom man suspected I don't publish them online because I hope you will buy my book, but as strange as it may sound the main reason is that I do not want to be responsible for failures. Most experts could not care less. I am retired, I don't need the money, and what I am doing is primarily to keep my brain active after my health-enforced retirement. And.... I do care.

Your argument that you do not publish your list of "genuine manufacturers" doesn't hold water. I would have thought someone actually paying you $49 for the information would make you feel MORE responsible for failures NOT less.

I don't need the money

Then why are you not giving to the community rather than trying to take?

It is obvious to me you are just here to drum up trade. You posts leave a bitter taste in my mouth and will a lot of other forum members I suspect. If it were up to me I'd run you out of town.

No offence. :D
 
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Thanks for doing the AMA, however this thread leaves a poor taste in my mouth. It is just way too salesy to start a what not to do thread and then follow up with no real answers. If you don't need the money, then don't peddle your book.

We don't expect you to put your whole book out there, but you should answer questions to problems that you yourself brought up. It's not like someone else said, "how do I find a go supplier in China" and you answered. You started your own thread to sell more copies of your book.

I think you'd find that you'd get way more sales if you just answered all questions because people are lazy and after reading this thread they'd probably buy the book to get all your info in one place.

I hope you don't leave and continue answering your AMA. If the posters above ask the same importing questions in that thread what would your answers be? After all it is an AMA.
 

MJ DeMarco

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AMA = Ask Me Anything

Walter thank you for doing the AMA (the other thread.) However I'm going to ask that if you are going to actively promote your stuff on this forum without admin approval I would suggest that you be forthright in your AMA and stop the "its in my book" or "visit the links in my signature" stuff. Such practice leaves many with a sour taste in their mouth. If you provide value here unconditionally, the traffic/sales/connections will happen on their own. Thank you. :)
 

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I am glad you have not had problems yet although if your read through my post you would see that the chances of you having actually found genuine manufacturers are not great.

I did read through this entire thread. Look man I'm not trying to be a dick, but I'm like exactly your market for this book (just getting into importing with a reasonable amount of startup cash.) And you're not selling me.

I didn't post because I doubted your abilities. Instead, I am merely annoyed by the fact that you started a thread called "AMA", and it feels as if every valuable question asked is answered with "I know a lot about this and can help you out, buy my book." Biophase said it best, people are lazy- if you show me that you have valuable information to offer, I'll buy the damn book for convenience sake. Way easier to reference a book than a forum thread that will be buried a week from now.

I don't mind you selling your book. Everyone on this forum is a capitalist. But with so many scams out there, show me that you will offer $45 value. Just because information is available for free doesn't mean people won't pay for it.

Here's a link to a place to learn SQL for free- http://www.w3schools.com/sql/default.asp

Here's a link to a book on learning SQL. It costs $20 and is ranked [HASHTAG]#2700[/HASHTAG] for books on Amazon- http://www.amazon.com/dp/0672336073/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20
 

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Are you on warrior forum? Everytime I see someone talk about importing its always the same guy telling you not to do alibaba/dhgate blah blah then link to his book.

I do agree with a lot of what you say though. Alibaba etc have too many middle men, they spam your emails etc. If its a serious business you are opening, then you could go to a tradeshow...either the ones in vegas but especially the ones in China. Who knows, maybe you can partner up and do something big (and get plenty of help). hard to do that over a cold email
 

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Walter I think you are peddling your wares in the wrong place. This is a forum where people share. You have everyone from newbies to multimillionaires here. Those just starting out in business to the seasoned entrepreneur and everyone in-between. The common theme throughout is sharing. This is a GIVING community but it seems you are here primarily to TAKE. You are offering titbits to interest people in buying your book. I might be wrong but I don’t see this forum as a place to peddle your wares for profit.

Your argument that you do not publish your list of "genuine manufacturers" doesn't hold water. (1) I would have thought someone actually paying you $49 for the information would make you feel MORE responsible for failures NOT less.

(2) Then why are you not giving to the community rather than trying to take?

It is obvious to me you are just here to drum up trade. You posts leave a bitter taste in my mouth and will a lot of other forum members I suspect. If it were up to me I'd run you out of town.

No offence. :D

I am certainly not the only person on this forum who has something to sell. Should they all be banned?

(1) If people failed through following my instructions I would feel very responsible. As yet, not one of the hundreds who are using my book and following the instructions there has reported failure. As I posted above : "On another forum one poster stated that she had searched hard and was unable to find any bad reviews of my book anywhere on the web", and she went on to say "this does not happen in the real world". Now you can be sure that if there were failures out there they would let the world know who they blamed.

(2) I have made the offer that forum members can ASK ME ANYTHING and have only been asked 3 questions there. I have answered them in detail.

  • How many newbies complain that they don't get responses to their email inquires to suppliers? In this thread I provided specific advice on how to overcome that extremely common problem.
  • I know that it is rare for people to read the fine print and as a result they take the B2B sites' "verification" systems at face value. I have alerted members to the fact that the system offers no protection.
  • What is worse is the trust people place in the rating system (Gold Supplier etc) and I have alerted members to the fact that those vendors have been subjected to no more scrutiny than ordinary verified vendors.
  • I have encountered large numbers of people who wrongly think they are dealing with manufacturers because they found people on B2B sites listed as manufacturers. I have alerted members to that false notion. The difference to your bottom line will be substantial if you go to manufacturers not wholesalers.
  • I have seen on this forum posts about buying big brands and I know that many people do not understand the risks they are taking in importing and selling counterfeits, knockoffs or even genuine branded items. I think it is of value for me to warn about this.

But No... I will not post my safe sourcing sites. REASON:
If someone wants to learn to swim, I will not say: "It's easy. First you need to find a swimming pool. Then you jump in. You'll soon get the idea."
Finding a supplier is only one step in a process that I have seen many people drown in. I have had people write to me seeking help after they have blundered into placing an order without knowing what they are doing. I won't help them blunder in by saying here's the pool, jump in.

Later today I will post my extensive but far from exhaustive list of things that a newbie importer needs to consider before they jump in that pool. Then maybe I can get on and provide more helpful answers to actual questions.
 

Walter Hay

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How is wiring money any safer than WU?
I assume you mean using International Money Transfer through a bank. It is only slightly safer than WU, but by making sure you only send to the supplier's company bank account you can greatly reduce the risk.

You should note that most companies in China trade under several different names, and that is quite legitimate. If you are asked to transfer the funds to a bank account in a different company name you must do some serious checking to be sure it is owned and operated by the same directors.

Alternatively it would probably be safe enough if you confirm that both the original company you began dealing with and the company to whose account you are being asked to send the funds are located at the same address.

Walter
 

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I did read through this entire thread. Look man I'm not trying to be a dick, but I'm like exactly your market for this book (just getting into importing with a reasonable amount of startup cash.) And you're not selling me.

I didn't post because I doubted your abilities. Instead, I am merely annoyed by the fact that you started a thread called "AMA", and it feels as if every valuable question asked is answered with "I know a lot about this and can help you out, buy my book." Biophase said it best, people are lazy- if you show me that you have valuable information to offer, I'll buy the damn book for convenience sake. Way easier to reference a book than a forum thread that will be buried a week from now.

I don't mind you selling your book. Everyone on this forum is a capitalist. But with so many scams out there, show me that you will offer $45 value. Just because information is available for free doesn't mean people won't pay for it.

Here's a link to a place to learn SQL for free- http://www.w3schools.com/sql/default.asp

Here's a link to a book on learning SQL. It costs $20 and is ranked [HASHTAG]#2700[/HASHTAG] for books on Amazon- http://www.amazon.com/Sams-Teach-Yourself-Minutes-Edition/dp/0672336073/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=8-1&keywords=teach yourself sql
Thanks Boxster, what you say about people buying when they can get it for free is true. Recently I had a lady buy my book and at the same time send me al link where a free download of the book was online.

I have posted specific and I believe helpful advice on these threads:
Need help, got response from supplier The only helpful response there was incomplete to the point that if followed could lead the OP to make a serious mistake. I gave a warning about it and stated how to avoid that mistake.
Anyone have experience with colorway and customizing products I gave a specific and helpful answer.
Help... caught in Alibaba hell!!! LOL I gave specific advice with information that would likely be unknown to most members.
What does this Chinese supplier mean? I gave a specific and detailed answer including a way to avoid being hit with surprise costs.
The Process Of Getting Something Made In China? I gave specific and detailed advice.

On my AMA thread, only 3 questions so far and all answered in detail.

The only 2 points on which I have not posted specifics are in this thread. One was about a freight scam. I told the OPs on "What does this Chinese supplier mean" and "Need help, got response from supplier" how to avoid getting caught, but I did not detail how the scam works. The other was was about my recommended safe sourcing sites and I make no apology for not posting those, as I explained in my reply to RazoCut.

See my new thread that I will post later today "Some things you should know before you start product sourcing." and you will probably better understand why I don't publish those sites.

Walter
 
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Vigilante

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A loose paralel to the law of attraction (that I don't necessarily subscribe to, but humor me:)

This forum is different than most out there. Add value without the "buy my book" and "like my link to my book in my sig says..."

And you will probably sell more books from here than anywhere else as people come to respect the obvious wealth of information you have over a career of doing this.

In short, if you are here to sell books, hit the road.

If you are here to add value to people's life (whether they buy your book or not) and become part of what makes this place a unique oasis on the internet, then stay. Take off your coat and hat, and invest.

Invest in these people, and it will come back to you.

You will find that people will buy your book because they need more of what you have to offer. And they do. And I am interested.

I think you are showing the wrong edge of the knife to these folks. Teach us to do stuff right. And... your book will sell.

You don't have to plug it, promote it, allude to it, or otherwise try and sell it to people here.

Unless, you would rather just cut the shit and become an advertiser (which also is an option.) You have something people would buy. If you would rather NOT invest in people, but simply want to reach your audience (which is here) than you can take out an ad, and sponsor the forum, and you will sell books that way.

But.. I for one hope you hang around. You have a lot of good shit to say if you just take it easy on the sales pitch.
 

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