Why All The Secrecy? Here's Why...

[JEdwards]

Just be proud you were the first Vig...

Reminds of this local Dumbass that made a device you can plug into the power cord on your TV that will control the hours that your kids watch. This was like in 2006., which I thought was kind of late to the party. but he was a friend of a friend, so I heard him out. He sat down and went on and on about how great his idea was, the whole time I was thinking this is so stupid. He left, I Forgot about it.

Then on my way to the office one day, I see it. A big billboard. How many hours do you let your Kids Watch TV?? With a Pic of the box, with a call to order number. He literally took out 50 of these all over town. Nice way to spend 30k. Never saw him or the crap item again.


And just so you all know I have spent 100's of thousands of dollars in advertising trying to sell crap that didnt work. Spent over 100k last year on a stupid idea. But it wasen't stupid when I was thinking about it. Oh well, you take the good with the bad.

 

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[LibertyForMe]

Spent over 100k last year on a stupid idea. But it wasen't stupid when I was thinking about it

Was it simple lack of results that turned the idea into a stupid idea? Or were there other revelations that made you realize it was a bad idea?

 

[limitup]

And just so you all know I have spent 100's of thousands of dollars in advertising trying to sell crap that didnt work. Spent over 100k last year on a stupid idea. But it wasen't stupid when I was thinking about it. Oh well, you take the good with the bad.

Technically, barring an unforeseen "catastrophic" event, this type of thing should never happen - because you should always validate your product/business assumptions before you ever spend that kind of money. But it happens to the best of us. We're human, not robots, and it's really damn hard to do this shit with 0% emotions involved. I "wasted" about 100k or so last year myself just screwing around with a few ideas.

 

[JEdwards]

Was it simple lack of results that turned the idea into a stupid idea? Or were there other revelations that made you realize it was a bad idea?

Sometimes your success makes you think you are smart. When you are not. The service we offered, just didnt work the way I assumed it did.

 

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[JEdwards]

Technically, barring an unforeseen "catastrophic" event, this type of thing should never happen - because you should always validate your product/business assumptions before you ever spend that kind of money. But it happens to the best of us. We're human, not robots, and it's really damn hard to do this shit with 0% emotions involved. I "wasted" about 100k or so last year myself just screwing around with a few ideas.

I agree, But at this point, I am taking the motto Go Big or Go Home... So water under the bridge. Lesson learned.

 

[limitup]

I agree, But at this point, I am taking the motto Go Big or Go Home... So water under the bridge. Lesson learned.

I operate in a similar fashion.

And you're right. Success in one or more businesses often leads to incredible confidence and a feeling that you can do no wrong. Usually it's overconfidence, as we usually find out the hard way.

 

[Nebojsa]

Copycats are everywhere.

And some have actually developed their business models as being copycats.
For example, do a search for Groupon clone, Pinterest clone, Kickstarster clone... you get the image.

Or recently while I was checking flippa I run on this listing:
https://flippa.com/3020695-site-with-20-220-uniques-mo-making-425-mo
- A site that is making 400$/month and is not even ranking in google
- Has a cheesy stock photos
- Bought wordpress theme, domain registration nov 2013
- Check the internal bidding war (funny )

And on top of that, they try to scam you
If You Want To Verify My earning Then Give me Your AdSense code. I will Put Your Code in My website.

P.S. I like checking Flippa for competitors and getting an overview what others do.

 

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[RHL]

I don't doubt that Zen's way of thinking is correct, it's just hard before you have millions of dollars and the infrastructure and confidence built up to know for a fact that not only that you can, but in every case, you WILL steamroll your competition, which Zen has, it's hard to want to lay it out there. It's tough to want to risk a lower the barrier to entry, and reduce the headaches for your competition.

I didn't know how to do a single thing I needed for my fastlane plan before I found the need. I had to develop all those skills from scratch (many are still in the embryonic stage), make huge mistakes, go back and redevelop and fine tune, get something passable, tune some more, now we're getting somewhere, and so on. As a result, you bet you're a$$ I'm worried about lazy people who already had those skills in place, but couldn't find their way to meeting needs with them. I'm working my butt off to get the skills they already have but aren't utilizing correctly, and I'm making their mistakes for them to boot.

The number of people who drop into Fastlane Forum with with the first post, "HAY GUISE TELL ME HOW TO GET TEH SWEET MONAYS" (heck, I got about 12 PMed-variations of that after the Viper thread, and a manager at McDonald's could afford a used Viper if they were clever about it)," tells me there's a large undercurrent of non-contributing process-haters out there looking for the event that will make them some cash (great example of that in the comments of that Yahoo story about the 27-year-old millionaire).

If someone can't use Google to find the tax laws in their state or look up how to build a wordpress or something, information that litters the internet and is freely accessible from multiple sources, I can't imagine what they'd do to escape the bother of actually having to work hard to get a fastlane started (hopefully nothing, then there wouldn't be a problem). As a result I'm feeling a little timid.

Then again, maybe this is just more excuse making. Maybe I just need to...

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Sadly, this thread needs a bump as there is another thief among us.

 

[rkmalo1]

IMO, the danger isn't disclosing the idea, but disclosing how much $ the idea is generating. This gives wantrepreneurs an insight into what's possible WITHOUT exposing them to the process of making it happen. In other words, they see "EVENTS"! (Wow, that site is making how much??)

I've done a lot of thinking about @JasonR 's situation over the past 24hrs and I think the quote above is basically 100% the reason why businesses get ripped off on forums like this. I'll never get it but I do know there are a ton of wantrepreneurs even on the inside, which plain and simple, it sucks!

This is by far my favorite business forum, mainly basically I deeply believe the Fastlane philosophy and I like MJ, Bio, Vig, Allen, Jason, Eskil, Kak, ICK, Jack, Vick, and a few other people here who are kicking a$$ and telling their stories. Even though I go through phases of being a frequent member on the forum, I have learned and implemented so much from all of them. I hope, one day, to be able to provide value to others like they have to me without even knowing it.

So I was thinking ...

I would HAPPILY pay $30 a month more to have access to these guys (while hopefully providing my own value) if there was some type of "super inside" part of the forum where only people generating $10k/month in revenue (or some figure) via a business could join.

Much like Andrew does at ecommercefuel:

http://www.ecommercefuel.com/ecommerce-forum/

Store owners must be generating at least $5,000/month in revenue. It’s not an enormous requirement, but is enough to ensure that participants are making a serious effort at running their own stores and have some real-world experience to share.

I'm not a member of that forum because I chose this one, but hear good things, he specifically caters to eCommerce though. I might try it out sometime but now right now, I barely have the time for this one.

I truly hope that this happening to Jason AGAIN (first Bio) does not dilute the Fastlane forum (edit: it already has with Jason leaving!). I can guarantee other members that at least $10k-$20k/month (of the $70-$120k/month) of revenue we generate every month is a direct result of things we have implemented from tips and topics discussed on this forum. These idiots that pull shit like this DO NOT understand how selfish and what shitty people they truly are.

 

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[Iwokeup]

I've done a lot of thinking about @JasonR 's situation over the past 24hrs and I think the quote above is basically 100% the reason why businesses get ripped off on forums like this. I'll never get it but I do know there are a ton of wantrepreneurs even on the inside, which plain and simple, it sucks!

This is by far my favorite business forum, mainly basically I deeply believe the Fastlane philosophy and I like MJ, Bio, Vig, Allen, Jason, Eskil, Kak, ICK, Jack, Vick, and a few other people here who are kicking a$$ and telling their stories. Even though I go through phases of being a frequent member on the forum, I have learned and implemented so much from all of them. I hope, one day, to be able to provide value to others like they have to me without even knowing it.

So I was thinking ...

I would HAPPILY pay $30 a month more to have access to these guys (while hopefully providing my own value) if there was some type of "super inside" part of the forum where only people generating $10k/month in revenue (or some figure) via a business could join.

Much like Andrew does at ecommercefuel:

http://www.ecommercefuel.com/ecommerce-forum/

Store owners must be generating at least $5,000/month in revenue. It’s not an enormous requirement, but is enough to ensure that participants are making a serious effort at running their own stores and have some real-world experience to share.

I'm not a member of that forum because I chose this one, but hear good things, he specifically caters to eCommerce though. I might try it out sometime but now right now, I barely have the time for this one.

I truly hope that this happening to Jason AGAIN (first Bio) does not dilute the Fastlane forum (edit: it already has with Jason leaving!). I can guarantee other members that at least $10k-$20k/month (of the $70-$120k/month) of revenue we generate every month is a direct result of things we have implemented from tips and topics discussed on this forum. These idiots that pull shit like this DO NOT understand how selfish and what shitty people they truly are.

I am not opposed to something like this. I know that I haven't contributed much yet overall, but I HAVE learned a ton from everyone, including @JasonR. His situation sucks and so did Biophase's situation previously. I dunno, if you paid more then perhaps there could be an additional level of social proof required? I'm game.

I don't want Jason to stop contributing but I understand why he will.

 

[AlterJoule]

My humble opinion, if you have something valuable to share, do it in a manner that benefits the forum members but protects you. If you're looking for help or support or friendship from notable members on the forum, you'll increase your likely hood of gaining that by simply providing enough value. I don't make 10k a month yet, but I can still add value, I can still inspire others, and I work my a$$ off.

I don't make 10k a month yet but I have a killer B&P topic to present that is still helpful to anyone...I don't make 10k a month yet but I can still help people do better...

I don't think the amount that someone makes is a function of ethics...

 

[MattCour]

It's a shame but I had a bad feeling about the level of detail shared in those podcasts.

 

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[randomnumber314]

I think many of us would be game for proving $5k (or $10k or $20k) a month to have access to a super INSIDERS section...but perhaps some of the truly experienced individuals can take a minute and pull aside the young guns doing great work and discuss the dangers of overly publicizing their success and secrets.

I imagine that if Zen, MJ, Jack, SteveO, and a number of very successful members were to write a letter basically stating "congrats on your success, here's what's going to blow up your in-box, and here's some lessons learned" this fiasco would be avoided in the future.

Success is enticing, your first success is intoxicating. Having some seasoned advice is the anecdote.

 

[AndrewNC]

access to a super INSIDERS section

While this is a great idea to have a 'trusted INSIDERS' section, don't wait on that to unfold to start networking with people like this.

I just got off an hour long phone call with someone who saved me $5,000 on adwords spend.... how did I become part of his INSIDERS circle?

I got off the computer, went to an event, made friends with him and now we help eachother out....more than 18 months after we met.

I have my expertise, he has his.

Meet people in person, build that trust, and you don't have to wait for something like this to pop up.

Not to come off harsh, but just hoping to motivate you. The real trust comes in person.

 

[Catalyst]

^ what that guy said

 

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[Guest]

This is just an idea, but maybe a democratic approach to vote people into the INSIDERS might help to weed out the thieves and creepers.

I do not have a $5k, $10k or any big money making business, yet, so that means I'm out of the exclusive greater than >$5k club if we go down this route. What I do have is my time, ideas, and words. How do you build relationships in real life? You take the time to met someone, hang out with them, build that trust, provide value, exchange thoughts and ideas, etc.

People should do that on forums by providing value first like giving feedback on other people's ideas, sharing relevant information and links, post insightful things, donate their time, share their ideas, knowledge, and experience.

I was excited to have found a forum like this and learn from many great people here, and initially I thought the INSIDERS was some exclusive club only for senior members and people who have provided great value and insight. NOPE, just pay some money and you can be in the club too. Sadly I've seen a few members with only a few posts who were INSIDERS and never hear much from them.

Granted a high number of INSIDERS are like vertebrae to the backbone of this forum, but there are some bad apples i.e. necessitating this thread.

INSIDERS Forum membership should be earned, by first providing value to the site. Maybe they need a certain number of post with a good "Likes Received" to post count ratio or a particular Rep Bank amount. I know that's what Speed Points are for, but I don't think that is enough, you can't judge value based on it.

My 2cents.

 

[Gale4rc]

Thanks MJ - Going to give a little less information on my thread now. Still want to provide value but, no point in giving exact stats on conversions and stuff.

 

[MitchC]

Can we have a forum for people with their own ideas who are well and truly on the road executing them and won't be interested in others ideas but want to share theirs with people who won't steal them so they can get proper specific help without the risk.

Anyone else here saying voting etc, you have nothing to lose to an INSIDERS group like that, just contribute on the outside.

Maybe you submit your idea, progress, methods etc everything, and if it's enough you are accepted, that way everyone in the forum is 100% doing something and it's all there for you all. Unfortunately it's still probably not enough protection, but I would love a safe place to share mine and get advice

 

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[theag]

Can we have a forum for people with their own ideas who are well and truly on the road executing them and won't be interested in others ideas but want to share theirs with people who won't steal them so they can get proper specific help without the risk.

that already exists and is called skype, phone or personal meetings

 

[AllenCrawley]

There's been talk before of a 'super duper secret INSIDERS's INSIDERS section' but it really boils down to not sharing too much information. If you really have a concern that someone is going to rip your business, steal your IP and/or become a competitor DO NOT post what your product is, your business name, your website... PERIOD.

Some businesses shared here have such a high barrier to entry it really doesn't matter too much but if your product or service has a low entry your can expect someone to copy you if you share too much.

I do think there should be more vetting or qualification to become an INSIDERS but if you want to be able to share more detailed info with others for the purpose of working thru a specific problem or challenge specific to your product or whatever then it's important to develop relationships with members off this forum...

Meet people in person, build that trust, and you don't have to wait for something like this to pop up.
Not to come off harsh, but just hoping to motivate you. The real trust comes in person.

There are a few people here that know much more about my business than I've shared here. It's because I trust them explicitly. That trust came from meeting them face to face and building that relationship with them.

What has happened to Jason is horrible and makes me angry. Let me ask a question. Would not knowing what his business was have made his posts here any less valuable? Absolutely NOT. Why? Because the lessons and experience he shared are universal.

I get it. When we see someone driving an exotic car the first thought is usually, "I wonder what they do for a living?". It's our nature to be inquisitive. When someone shares how successful their business is we naturally want to know what it is but ultimately, for the sake of this forum, it's not vitally important we know.

 

[Vigilante]

And his business was first exposed due to the super sleuths at Reddit. He had done a pretty decent job of casting vision without creating competition until his Reddit AMA.

 

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[AllenCrawley]

And his business was first exposed due to the super sleuths at Reddit. He had done a pretty decent job of casting vision without creating competition until his Reddit AMA.

Yes, don't do a reddit AMA if you don't want people to know what your biz is.

 

[MitchC]

that already exists and is called skype, phone or personal meetings

That's a bit, actually a lot different, from being able to have your own progress thread and share everything with a group, don't get all high and mighty because you've made a few friends. Maybe I'll just post my thread on a blog with a password, even that's still not the same as people won't see it unless I ask them to look.

 

[DaRK9]

Hence why no progress thread for my current projects. I've already had people PMing me asking questions. I can't image how many those who already have made it get.

When I actually get a sale, then I will make a thread saying I have made a sale in X market.

 

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[tafy]

Well my progress thread is pretty open, it has some barriers to entry and a shit load of tough competition already so I'm not worried about it.

 

[CreateLiving]

There will always be idea thieves, there is just no way around it...

 

[Mike.B]

INSIDERS Forum membership should be earned, by first providing value to the site. Maybe they need a certain number of post with a good "Likes Received" to post count ratio or a particular Rep Bank amount. I know that's what Speed Points are for, but I don't think that is enough, you can't judge value based on it.

This +1

 

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[Yasai]

If I ever make a fortune, I probably wouldn't mind also sharing how much it is. But then again, I'm just starting out, so maybe my perspective will change, who knows.
So far, I believe that money isn't exactly scarce, once you know how to make it. Right?

While I agree with MJ on all of the points, I would like to put a spin on the whole mosquito-analogy:
If you absolutely dominate your field and provide the best damn service, you will never have to worry about idea thieves etc.
Comes down to how much confidence you have in yourself and your product or service i guess.
It's as if competitors are barely even a blip on your radar, if you know they won't be any threat to you, no matter how hard they try.

I can see how, especially in the starting phase, you're gonna want to reduce any kind of "nuisance" or "discomfort" as much as you can.
It's a time of instability and thus a breeding ground for all kinds of insecurities (with varying degrees of gravity/intensity).

On the other hand, I think there would be much less stress and anxiety if you could "live like you are already dominating your field".
I think others have actually mentioned stuff like this already (zen*******, for example).

Hope this is at least somewhat helpful with regards to creating "peace of mind".

 

[KLaw]

If I ever make a fortune, I probably wouldn't mind also sharing how much it is. But then again, I'm just starting out, so maybe my perspective will change, who knows.
So far, I believe that money isn't exactly scarce, once you know how to make it. Right?

While I agree with MJ on all of the points, I would like to put a spin on the whole mosquito-analogy:
If you absolutely dominate your field and provide the best damn service, you will never have to worry about idea thieves etc.
Comes down to how much confidence you have in yourself and your product or service i guess.
It's as if competitors are barely even a blip on your radar, if you know they won't be any threat to you, no matter how hard they try.

I can see how, especially in the starting phase, you're gonna want to reduce any kind of "nuisance" or "discomfort" as much as you can.
It's a time of instability and thus a breeding ground for all kinds of insecurities (with varying degrees of gravity/intensity).

On the other hand, I think there would be much less stress and anxiety if you could "live like you are already dominating your field".
I think others have actually mentioned stuff like this already (zen*******, for example).

Hope this is at least somewhat helpful with regards to creating "peace of mind".

How are u just starting out? "But then again, I'm just starting out". Specifics please