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Language learners thread

ArthurDayne

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@ArthurDayne
I'm leaning towards Mandarin so I'm wondering of those that can speak it, what was your experience learning? Can you read a lot of characters?
I've been watching quite a few online vids, and I actually find the tones quite interesting.
It's a shame that Hong Kong is primarily Cantonese, but as I understand it there are various other dialects on the mainland but most are more or less compatible with each other.

My experience learning was both challenging and very fun. I have about a 3,000 character vocabulary and was writing 5,000 word essays at the end of my time in China. I'd stress that you odn't need to take it to that point in order to be functional, verbally fluent, and get a lot of credit for having learned arguably the world's toughest language (or top 5... let's leave that debate out).

I'd say that unless you have a chance to live in CHina for 6 months or more at some point in the next few years, then it might not be worth the time. I learned in Canada for 2 years before going to China, and it did help learning some beforehand, but if you want it to become something that is a part fo your life/career/business then you really need the immersion experience. As you've seen in this thread, you can learn spanish "from home" so to speak, which is a pro in some ways.

Tones are a "you get it or you don't" thing. You either have good tones from day 1, or nothing... I've never actually seen someone actually improve their tones past the first few months of learning. It's got something to do with musical ability - having an "ear" for things.

Living in HK is indeed lousy for my Chinese! People here can speak it, but they don't *want* to speak it with you. So if you want to learn the language, go to the mainland or Taiwan.

I'm looking forward to @ArthurDayne 's input on Mandarin. The one knock on it as I can tell is the sheer difficulty of being able to read it. Russian wins in that regard.. sure you have to learn a new alphabet, but it's easier than the thousands of Simplified Chinese characters.

Problem is, most Chinese expats speak Cantonese.. not sure how useful Mandarin outside of China would be.

Reading and writing is the kicker. If I had to be perfectly honest, trying to pick it up in any serious way precludes fastlane endeavour. I have spent thousands of hours on rote memorization over the years.

That being said, what's much more realistic is taking the course, doing the basic memorization required in early stage mandarin, and use that as a jumping board for a larger focus on speaking. I don't think going for "full literacy" is necessary at all - In fact I'm convinced it's not. You'll get 99% of the credit and usefulness from being verbally functional.
 
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A

Angus

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I've just finished the Spanish Duolinguo tree, 30 minutes to 1 hour a day for a month. Pretty good habit.
I can now understand documentaries and read non-academic books in Spanish.
I'm blessed because Italian is my mother tongue, and it's very, very similar to Spanish.

I'm going to start translating texts on Duolinguo tomorrow and see if it's worth it.

I'm going to learn German next. I'm planning on being able to read a book in German by the end of the year.

Duolinguo is great.
 
D

DeletedUser394

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@ArthurDayne

That's some great info thank you. I'm concerned about xenophobia. How are westerners typically received, especially those that can actually speak Mandarin with any kind of proficiency?

I wouldn't want to just stay confined to Beijing.

I know that Russians would generally appreciate any effort to converse in their native language, but I'm caucasian, so it would be easier to integrate, etc. I'll always be an 'outsider' in China and that's fine.
 

MayaMagpie

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I'm a native German, but I really couldn't say if Germans in general speak good English or not. Most learn it at school, but it's up to the individual to keep up with it. It's easier now that stuff is available over the internet and I have seen friends go from not speaking English at all to being completely fluent just by watching youtube or pirated movies. Others don't bother and forget most after a few years.

The Germans have the advantage/disadvantage that everything on TV is in German - As in, all foreign movies etc are dubbed. It's different in the Netherlands or parts of Scandinavia, where you get the original movies and shows and people have to learn English in order to understand them.
 
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DaRK9

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I'm meh in Russian. Had a few Russian friends and picked up a touch of it. I'm torn between French and Russian right now. I have most of the sounds for Russian already down so I figure I should stick with that, but I love French.
 

Formless

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For learning the characters faster, google:

- Remembering the Hanzi
- Spaced Repetition Systems
- AJATT. It's a Japanese learning site, but just consume everything that applies.

The process doesn't have to suck.
 
G

GuestUser113

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@RichKid

For learning the characters faster, google:

- Remembering the Hanzi
- Spaced Repetition Systems
- AJATT. It's a Japanese learning site, but just consume everything that applies.

The process doesn't have to suck.

Also want to point out the use of anki decks. https://ankiweb.net/shared/decks/chinese
Using heisig core deck, will work wonders.
 
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ArthurDayne

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@ArthurDayne

That's some great info thank you. I'm concerned about xenophobia. How are westerners typically received, especially those that can actually speak Mandarin with any kind of proficiency?

I wouldn't want to just stay confined to Beijing.

I know that Russians would generally appreciate any effort to converse in their native language, but I'm caucasian, so it would be easier to integrate, etc. I'll always be an 'outsider' in China and that's fine.

You might find this surprising, but I'd say Chinese people are some of the least xenophobic people outside of North America. They're less xenophobic than germans, french, or the dutch.

If you can speak even a few words, Chinese people (even in the countryside) will be absolutely delighted. Compare that to how a weak grasp of french is poorly received in Paris.

At various stages of my mandarin I've been taken into stranger's homes, invited to family banquets, and generally treated amazingly well because learning even a little bit of mandarin is received amazingly well. It's seen as someone caring enough to learn about their culture, and they appreciate it - no matter how imperfect your understanding may be. The simple fact that you're interested and trying goes an extremely long way.

Overall I'd say Chinese folks, even outside Beijing, are in fact the opposite of xenophobic. They can be racist towards other non-white minorities, but overall if you'll be surprised how welcoming and hospitable everyone is - even if you only speak a few words.
 

chen

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...... not sure how useful Mandarin outside of China would be.

Perhaps don't need to concern too much on usefulness. Why not strive for excellence? And do not be afraid to learn useless stuff.
The first duty of a young man is to be ambitious anyway.

Someday you may be delighted to find that you can read Tao Te Ching in the original Chinese texts,
and have a lifelong pleasure out of mastering the Mandarin Chinese language.
 
D

DeletedUser394

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They can be racist towards other non-white minorities.

Pretty interesting stuff all around. Lots of positives I didn't know about.

I've been doing some research and this is a point that keeps coming up. I read a couple of examples where a group of friends would visit China and anytime a white/black person spoke some Mandarin (no matter how poorly) the general reaction was 'how clever!' or 'how cute!' but when the asian friend in the group would speak in Mandarin (poorly as well) the reaction was essentially 'why is this guy/girl so mentally slow. haha
 
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Timbonitus

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I live in Taiwan and I have been studying Chinese for the past year or so.

Its quite a challenge. Completely different from European languages. Im learning slowly. I also know a bit of Spanish but I want to become fluent. If I learn how to speak Chinese and Spanish fluently l, Ill be a happy camper.

Sent from my GT-I8160 using Tapatalk 2
 

Roman27941

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That's quite amazing. I thought that it would be strange to post my message on this forum, yet there's already a thread on this topic.

I haven't been able to find a language exchange partner who'd be interested in entrepreneurship, personal development, passive income on language exchange sites, so I post it here, maybe someone would be interested. I'm trying to start my own business right now and I'd really like to talk to someone like minded, maybe to someone who's on the same path or to someone who's been there before.

My English level is about upper-intermediate and I really want to become fluent, most of my time I receive information in English and I just want to be able to communicate fluently, the faster the better. I am a native Russian speaker

P.S. I'm looking for an American English native speaker
 
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Roman27941

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Search turned nothing up and since this forum is somewhat of a multicultural gathering point, it doesn't make sense not to have a thread like this. Learning foreign languages has so many benefits, both professionally and personally, that I figured this would be the perfect place to find others like me

I personally love language and how it defines us and affects our lives. Of course, other languages are also very helpful when it comes to communicating with the giant portion of the planet who don't speak English.

This thread is about helping yourself and others take your language skills to a new level, or maybe just inspiration to get started. If you have a question, suggestion, tip, or just want to discuss languages and learning, post about it here!

Currently my focus is on learning Russian, with French and German on the backburner. Eventually I'd like to tackle a bunch more but I'm trying to keep focused on my main goal until I'm satisfied with my conversational skills in the language.

I'd love to hear from others about their language projects and goals. If you have something interesting to say on the topic of language that isn't necessarily about learning (for instance I read this really cool book about idioms and the like from around the world the other day) you're more than welcome to post your thoughts here too
What is your level of Russian?
 
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Daniel A

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I'm about to start learning Spanish on my own via Duolingo and (if I can find it) Pimsluer. I'm not going to focus on it too much, but there could be practical (business and personal) applications with understanding it in the future. So it's at least worth starting right now.

I actually grew up speaking basic Spanish so it shouldn't be too difficult. If people speak to me slowly and without a heavy accent in Spanish; I will most likely understand them. If I attempt to write or speak in Spanish though, it takes too long and it's not effective.

Current Resources

 

Ninjakid

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Native English speaker here. I speak and read Japanese fluently, in French and Korean I'm almost fluent, I know a tiny bit of Chinese and Hindi (can't really converse, can only say simple statements), and I'm currently trying to improve in learning all those languages; even English (a hobby of mine is browsing through the dictionary to find new words).

One tip I can offer people is, when you're learning a new language, pretend that your target language is your native language. Convince yourself that this is the case, and you'll think in your target language, and habitually want to speak in it. This will train you to become comfortable with that language, and you'll be able to speak it a lot more naturally.
 

Ninjakid

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Problem is, most Chinese expats speak Cantonese.. not sure how useful Mandarin outside of China would be.
Most Chinese expats will speak Mandarin. Even the Cantonese ones, they will usually also speak Mandarin because it's just way more wide-spread; but they'll speak Cantonese with their family.
It also depends on where you go. I think San Francisco has a much larger Cantonese-speaking community than anywhere that isn't Guangzhou or Hong Kong.
 
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D

DeletedUser394

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Most Chinese expats will speak Mandarin. Even the Cantonese ones, they will usually also speak Mandarin because it's just way more wide-spread; but they'll speak Cantonese with their family.

Not in my experience. Quite nearly every expat that I'm friends with or that I've interacted with can only speak English and Cantonese (and french.. but that's because where I live).

Anyway, after looking into the language for a while (both mandarin and cantonese) I decided it isn't worth it.

Between the tones and the antiquated/inefficient character writing style, therefore it's no longer on my radar as a language.
 

Ninjakid

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Not in my experience. Quite nearly every expat that I'm friends with or that I've interacted with can only speak English and Cantonese (and french.. but that's because where I live).
I think it definitely depends on where you live. But in the whole world, Mandarin has a lot more speakers.

Anyway, after looking into the language for a while (both mandarin and cantonese) I decided it isn't worth it.

Between the tones and the antiquated/inefficient character writing style, therefore it's no longer on my radar as a language.
Learning either of those is definitely a huge mental and temporal investment; especially for an English speaker. The tones always got me as well. Whenever I try to pronounce a work in Cantonese, my friend nearly dies laughing. Confidence dead.
 

Bila

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Not in my experience. Quite nearly every expat that I'm friends with or that I've interacted with can only speak English and Cantonese (and french.. but that's because where I live).

Anyway, after looking into the language for a while (both mandarin and cantonese) I decided it isn't worth it.

Between the tones and the antiquated/inefficient character writing style, therefore it's no longer on my radar as a language.

I can teach you Arabic :cool:
 
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Daniel A

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Wow, very cool! From a very credible source / study too (one that I'd be allowed to cite in school, lol). There's a lot of different data ... but I'm definitely going to improve my English (expand vocabulary, writing, etc.) and learn Spanish.

Latin, Ancient Greek, Sanskrit, Tibetan and Yiddish are among the least spoken. There aren't a million speakers for any of them ... I wonder how many there are though.
 

Phones

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I know English, Portuguese (mother-tongue) and can easily understand/read Spanish (every Portuguese understands Spanish and can learn to speak easily).

Currently tackling Mandarin, I'm crossing that point of being able to say some simple phrases, now it's all about building vocabulary and practising my speech. Going to Taipei in 2015.

Btw, I would still go for Chinese over Spanish if I didn't know any of them, compare the number/market of people that can't speak English in those two languages. Plus, a Spanish speaking person can understand English much easier than a Chinese one.

再见!
 
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Daniel A

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@Phones Man, that's seriously awesome! I very quickly tried looking for some data on how many people in the USA are at least fluent in two languages. I didn't find any but, I'm sure it's a low percentage. It seems like the USA is really behind in language learning (even though there are classes for it in schools).

What have you been using/doing to learn Chinese? Unfortunately Duolingo doesn't have it available yet.

I have a good amount of family members that speak Spanish (and English of course). And every time I see them I tell them I'll learn, but never do. I also have family outside the USA in Guatemala (Spanish speaking country) that are business owners, so there might be the possibility of doing business together. Those are some of my biggest motivators for Spanish.

You're right Chinese could open up A LOT of possibilities though. I've never even tried learning it, but I will at least try sometime. It's seriously so foreign though. I'm not sure if I'm kidding myself or not, hahaha.

PS: I actually did start learning Spanish on Duolingo. So far it's been easy because I'm on the basics. Duolingo is genius.
 

Cesare

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I'm fluent in Italian, English, German and I have a passive vocabulary in French, so I understand a great deal when someone speaks French or when I read it.

I guess, I'm going to learn Spanish as well, since it is really similar to Italian and it is really, really useful as a world language.
 
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Forodstar

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Learning a language is much like setting up a business. No one is going to do it for you. No university, no course.

The only way you will learn a language is if it becomes real to you. That it is you use it with yourself and with others.

I recommend a 'long haired/short haired dictionary' i.e. a woman/man who you like/love (even better if they don't know English and have a huge family).

I learned Czech this way and it is only language other than English that feels real to me.
 

Jeremy Markham

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I commend anyone who attempts, successfully or otherwise, to learn a language. I tried learning Spanish and Mandarin but unfortunately didn't have the dedication at the time. I would like to learn both languages but I want to wait until I have the right amount of time to dedicate to the process before jumping back into it.

On another note my dad who is in his 60's just recently started learning Spanish and he is doing really well! I'm really proud of him because it's difficult at any age, but even more so as one gets older. Just goes to show its NEVER too late to learn something new. Go dad!!
 

Cesare

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If anybody wants to learn German or Italian, let me know about it. I would offer long-term eMail contact, in which I would answer all of your questions and give you high quality lessons for payment.
 
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D.Eodice

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I love languages. My first business was all about them. ;)

It's hard to balance with business, though, especially if you try to stay immersed in a language 24/7, which is what my ideal language-learning environment would be.

I can totally relate to this. English is my native language but I've done informal translation work in German. I too love language learning but have found that a true immersion environment is tough to emulate outisde of actually living in a country. Perhaps that's why one of my fastland endgoals is to own property in either Germany or Italy.
 

D.Eodice

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Languages have been a true passion of mine for almost 5 years now. I'm best in German but have studied Russian in detail and have dabbles in Italian and Greek as well. I personally feel that used correctly, speaking an additional language/languages can be an invaluable asset to creating a business. Not everyone has the patience or willpower to dedicate the time and energy to language learning. Additionally, languages offer a door to new markets that would create difficulty for those who don't speak the language.

So with that, who on here uses another language in their business? And if you do, for curiosity's sake, which one(s) do you speak?
 

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