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Diving into Code - all help and criticism welcome

A detailed account of a Fastlane process...
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Deleted21704

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I believe that being better at code will alllow me to "lead gently" rather than bear down on guys
There's nothing more demotivating than a manager who sees engineers as nothing but code-monkeys. I've seen it break up high-profile, well-funded companies.

Rolling up your sleeves, taking bullets, and learning the craft will give make your engineers respect and appreciate you more. Engineering is often more than code...it's not until you begin writing code and designing interfaces that some of the most fundamental business decisions will come to the surface.

Hence the 'technical analyst' phenomenon to bridge the gap between business and code. But early on, without that luxury, both sides need to understand each other at a very deep level.

It goes both ways...a super-star coder who knows nothing about business should be avoided too.
 
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RogueInnovation

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Yes thats crucial.

So I'll need experiences that help me understand them and results that prove I'm not a bs artist...

Develop my resume to employees
Proving I'm not hypocritical/blind/moronic

I need to aim to compliment their skills and views, not gratify my own random whims.

it's not until you begin writing code and designing interfaces that some of the most fundamental business decisions will come to the surface.

I'd love to know what you mean here

But it sounds true, in that its in the execution you learn the most
 
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Deleted21704

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I'd love to know what you mean here
I'm referring to the delicate overlap of vision, marketing, design, and functionality in the way a product is built.

Example: right now I'm making a SaaS to collect peoples' top influences (e.g., what are the books, experiences, mentors, experiences, etc. that shaped successful peoples' lives?). At first, thinking about it, everything seems pretty straightforward: make structures to handle book data, person data, internet links, experience data, etc. Attribute those resources to a person, and just rinse and repeat. Simple.

But when I actually started writing code and inputting data, I realized things weren't so simple. John F. Kennedy loved books in series. That posed a complication.
  • How do we represent series? What are the upsides and downsides (UX, search, functionality) of creating a separate series structure versus keeping books separate and simulating series with tags? I don't want my users to be confused.
  • Is there a chance a user would ever search for one book in the series and not the other? If books differ significantly by topic, maybe it's better to keep them separate. But will all series' books differ by topic? Probably not.
  • From an administrative perspective, I'll be the one inputting book data. How practical will it be to input every single book in a really long series? Keeping series as a single entity will save me a lot of time.
  • Which option will be most technically efficient so that the user doesn't have to wait forever for series data to load? Database concerns arise, and NoSQL doesn't make relations easy.
  • Are there other options?
Some written resources, like Paul Graham's essays for example, aren't books, but they're more substantial than typical links or blogs. How should those be handled? Is this another type of series? Is each one considered a book? Do we need a new data structure? It's a bit crazy to input each essay separately, but what are we losing by clumping them together? Is the loss worth the time we gain?

In both scenarios, it's not technically hard to implement a solution. But coming up with one that fits the long-term vision, marketing, UX/UI, technical scalability, etc. isn't trivial.

Intricacies will come up in whatever you decide to do. Having the perspective to think through them holistically is crucial. Everyone involved at the early stages needs to to understand a substantial part of what the other person (and the company as a whole) is doing.

Some business-people think that getting a 'ninja hacker' will prevent them from ever needing to worry about the website again. That's totally false.
 

RogueInnovation

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Some business-people think that getting a 'ninja hacker' will prevent them from ever needing to worry about the website again. That's totally false.


Thats true, the nuances in structuring data and solving how it all lays out is super important to get right. The biz guy knows the customer and the vision, and if the programmer is solving all that, you can end up with the very least appealling way to structure it for end users.

Biz is the eyes, and programing the hands, one without the other has to be a big disadvantage, huge infact.

Good point and well made!!!
I'll keep in mind that coordination is key!


"the delicate overlap"
I really like that. I've been discovering more and more how silly assuming it is "wham bam thank you maam". It seems delicate in the sense decisions can really accumulate and seem right or stick out and seem odd if you don't "sense" the right way to do it.
 
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Jakeeck

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Yeah to keep this short (dont want to further hijack).

It's good to question or take inventory on your current path. Reflection never hurt anything. But. If you're passionate about software, don't let anybody stop you. Create software because you want to, do not create software out of a lust for quick cash or desire to be like Zuck. That gets old quick. The lesson that took me way too long to realize is this. True Programmers are social people. They take part in their community. They commit dozens of times a week to their own projects and send pull requests to the projects of programmers with a bug fix, a new feature, or a refactor, making something cleaner and more concise. They try to attend meetups and post regularly on sites like Stack Overflow offering their help to others. Code Academy cannot teach this.

This was not me. Never once was I that guy, thats why when I have the opportunity to stop a person getting ready to jump in, I think it's good to let them examine the extent of their own passion.

Most people just want to know enough code to add some custom plugin to WP or change it's theme, resolve CSS padding error, or maybe add a few Bootstrap classes to an existing project to make it responsive, remove what's in the header of a homepage and implement a slider using nano-slider or some other jQuery. Again, you have to be clear on what you want, then the tools and rigorous study that you'd have to undergo will take shape.

"I want my own app, or software biz". Go into that, and describe your role in that biz. Nothing wrong with having a more technical role, but do your due diligence and see if you can get there using an alternate path through marketing and copywriting (or whatever). I feel one shouldn't be 'forced' to go down the marketing route if that's not 'them' either.

The world has too many people doing shit that they don't care about. I know some programmers *with jobs* that hate their lives...I'd venture a guess that the more entrepreneurial programmers are happier. But whatever you decide, keep what makes you leap out of bed alive. Nurture that.

We have enough Zombies already. And we damn sure don't need a Fastlane Zombie.

I'm one of those guys who wants to learn how to edit wordpress code/plugin code. I can do some things, but now I'm at the point in developing my website where it's too advanced for me to do.

Would I be best off learning php from the ground up?
 

RogueInnovation

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Code:

It amplifies the power of an individual
If that individual is of a crude mind, flailing and hacking, it has little purpose
But in the hands of a man who commands inner peace and imbues it with purpose
It becomes an extension of that purpose making him immovable

images


I'm finding this visualisation very helpful at the moment, the idea that code is like engraving a signature onto the blade and crafting a purpose to its design.
That it is a ceremonial act of great precision and preparation.

Code will become the sword to my business.
And I feel that my philosophy for now, is to treat coders as those who forge and embue craft into blades. Often weilded poorly but in the hands of a master, unstoppable.

The aim in my business will be "code harmony" a matching of purpose (business) and design (crafted code). Each viewed as inseperable from one another.

Aim:

To create Zenshin code. To allow the clamber of details to dissappear to no mind.
To see the short clash before it happens.

I think that without that, the code will be sh#t, cliche, buggy, cumbersome.
And the website will be a pitchfork, rather than a blade.

Standards:

Now I do not have to create the zenshin code, BUT I do have to make sure that is the result.
Code without purpose isnt what I'm after.
I'm looking to help develop code harmony for the business I undertake on the web.
So, no afternoon hacker code ;)


Discipline, care, depth, and attenuating the process, into a fine blade
Creating cutting edge code :)

Its going to require a lot of discipline from me. So I have to let go of the idea that this will solve itself...

I have to assess this long term...
Keep a tidy and organised process.
Etching out an inch at a time of progress.


Maybe I'll pay a commission for inches.
And lead the f#ck out of a solid team.

First thing is first, I gotta earn that respect. No shortcuts. No bullshit. So I can be worthy of asking the same, from the crew.
 
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OverByte

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I think Javascript, Ruby, Python, sql and domain knowledge will teach me process and undo moderate amounts of bad assumptions.
I think that the most foundational understandings will be the hardest to uncover and will require an innovative attitude a bunch of passion and the will to leap.

If you are short on time I'd recommend against learning both ruby and python as both will offer the same capabilities and you won't get overwhelmed with syntactical differences. Both are well used and documented pick one you like. Python is a bit stricter on syntax.

JavaScript and SQL will be critical for web based application so you are right there.

Some advice, think up front about how your classes will interact, sketch this interaction on paper (like a class diagram but doesn't have to be formal though reading class diagrams will be helpful if you want to eventually lead developers). Do this before you start coding. Defining your interactions up front is a must if you want a clean product that is maintainable. Don't be afraid to make mistakes prototype and refactor where necessary.

You're right that the foundational problems will be hardest to uncover as there are many ways to achieve a goal but not all the best. If you have specific questions don't be afraid to ask on here or stack overflow. Most experienced programmers like to help people out if they take an ernest interest in the craft.

Good luck.
 
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RogueInnovation

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I've been trying to get my head around class relationships, and my first clear idea on this comes down to one word

FIT

Code might therefor be weird, inefficient and cocky by human nature

When we execute a plan based off assumptions this is exactly what we get. Cocky, weird, inefficient BS that will NOT get rid of itself.
Therefor, FIT is about striving to NOT build on assumption but testing, experience and understanding.

This is the direction I believe will get a grasp on class relationships.
You can't be weak and suck and say "I don't know code, it should magically work, give me a handicap so I can play with the big guys!"

You can't just plop jpegs and html code to create an image with links (I was thinking this long ago). You have to assess conditions, verify the goals, verify users, inform all parts of the systems, store all relevant data and maintenance data, observe interaction, code for the browser (which takes in mouse clicks and typing), understand the way it will work, and KNOW what each part MEANS for the end user.

The meaning for the end user seems irrelevant at first look, but, its actually the GUI. A gui seemingly isn't just build as a design in photoshop (crazy I know! :p) its build through signals of comprehending the purpose of each segment of how the system is coded. You are in essence building the "experience" of the GUI, while the graphic designer is creating the texture and contrasts to catch the eye.

FIT then is all about intuitive use that comes from understanding the meaning of how and why things FIT where they do. And code is then about comprehending the importance of subtle interactions, and THIS is how I am starting to believe that class relationships and code "comes together".

Its thinking about the impact of code, rather than the easiest path to displaying what you assume is necessary.
Which is mind boggling, since our tendency is to design off assumption, not to question impact of subtle or annoying alterations.

So cool.

But it begs the question, what are we saying with our design ATTITUDE?
And how do we orient the program accordingly to create the best impact imaginable...


Heh heh, I'm such a newb. This is old news for anyone that has any decent grasp of code. For me this is just a step in the right direction. Upgrading my expectations from "code monkeys" towards craft. And lessen my ignorance, to shorten the process a bit.
Serendipitous code seems to be the aim, and force seems to be what has to be avoided.

I doubt this is anything new, but its a brick in the foundation, hopefully by the end of the month I can write some half decent running code. I have my work cut out for me.

You're right that the foundational problems will be hardest to uncover as there are many ways to achieve a goal but not all the best. If you have specific questions don't be afraid to ask on here or stack overflow. Most experienced programmers like to help people out if they take an ernest interest in the craft.

Good luck.

Thanks man! Boy do I ever need it! I think luck is all about attitude though, and that I can turn it around (I certainly hope I can!).

I'll make sure to search for some of my questions (thats a good idea!) thanks for the reminder.


Code that FITS, not perfect code, requires intense concentration and understanding, and THAT is how code should form.
 
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rcdlopez

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I'm one of those guys who wants to learn how to edit wordpress code/plugin code. I can do some things, but now I'm at the point in developing my website where it's too advanced for me to do.

Would I be best off learning php from the ground up?

No. I think the best way to learn any skill, especially programming, is by learning it when you need to learn it. A lot of people ask me if I went to school to become a software engineer and almost every time I tell them no, they look at me like, "wtf, how's that possible?"

All of the programming languages I learned, I learned how to use while on a job. If you buy a book on PHP fundamentals, for instance, and you say to yourself that you are going to go through it completely in order to "learn it", you will most likely forget everything by the time you finish it.

Instead pick something you want to make, like a custom CMS for instance, then use google/youtube to learn how to build that. In your efforts to get that made you will pick up new concepts which you will learn much easier because you are actually engaged with the concepts rather than just reading about it.

Concepts stick in your head much easier if you are applying them than when you are just reading about them in a book.
 

AdrianMC

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No. I think the best way to learn any skill, especially programming, is by learning it when you need to learn it. A lot of people ask me if I went to school to become a software engineer and almost every time I tell them no, they look at me like, "wtf, how's that possible?"

All of the programming languages I learned, I learned how to use while on a job. If you buy a book on PHP fundamentals, for instance, and you say to yourself that you are going to go through it completely in order to "learn it", you will most likely forget everything by the time you finish it.

Instead pick something you want to make, like a custom CMS for instance, then use google/youtube to learn how to build that. In your efforts to get that made you will pick up new concepts which you will learn much easier because you are actually engaged with the concepts rather than just reading about it.

Concepts stick in your head much easier if you are applying them than when you are just reading about them in a book.

I echo this statement, but I would recommend a hybrid approach. I never used any programming books for the longest time, and did perfectly fine (was able to get programming jobs, etc.). However, when I started reading books alongside building things, I felt like I was locking down good practices that a lot of people tend to miss. That being said, there are WAYYY too many programming books out there that end up wasting your time. It's going to take some trial and error, but eventually you'll be able to scan a Table of Contents and maybe the first few chapters and know if it's a book you can work with.
 
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RogueInnovation

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I completed code academy ruby, and will do the javascript one soon-ish, I found myself twiddling my thumbs so got on it, building those synaptic connections via getting that tiny tutorial level stuff done (it reminded me of those games where it tells you how to crouch and jump and use the controls).

I think that "polish"/perfect finish, comes from foundations.
Weak foundation = terrible finish
Strong foundation = easier to polish

I have become certain, that weak foundations create resistance between relationships, which pushes a coder out of the right path they should be taking. I feel that this is a cause to stress and anxiety and that snowballing anxiety is the cause of poor quality. So I aim to focus on foundations first (not features first) no matter how agonising that makes the process. I have a suspicion that features will build themselves if the hard work on foundations is done.

As a result, I'm going to try to gravitate away from "easy paths", which will not be easy...

Ironically I think this is the fastest path. Of course code will cost TIME but the point is simply to get through the hardest part, so it consumes less time after that. The right philosophies, practices, foundations, and models for building it right from the ground up is the only real way to get a handle on the f#ckups that will REALLY cost time.

Build it right, ONCE.
 
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RogueInnovation

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Will try to get some functional code done soon

I'm a little overwhelmed, but in a good way, so I guess I'm not going to rush, but I just want to be sure to get some real stuff done.
I feel kind of "involved" now, am getting very used to the landscape.
This has all been a rather steep learning curve, but I'll settle in soon.

Seems the main idea for shortcutting the process is to trace outlines and slowly thicken it in.

Project one:
A credible sales system

inputs, checks, notifications, reciept (two), customer list, confirmed payment, order, processing time, distribute, orders sent and orders recieved, tally of orders and sends matched or duplicates, notifications for mismatches errors and delays weekly, monthly summation.

authentification (probably just done on browser, but will need to check if the reciept needs to check with the database or if an order tracking number is sufficient)
database (off browser: list and reciept, confirmation, order| input, tally, notify/record)
tasks using database (2)
output distributer/output management/output admin/output customer

data:
reciept, payment confirmation, profile
send order, send records, matchup, timer
tally, notes, admin

Will do some diligence on that. Will need a test that doesn't run on cash. Do a security audit.

Projected sales:
I wanna sell about 100 000 units or more so, I'll need to check how many we can mail per week.
But if we have a list of pending requests we can send out a mail while I manually handle that.

Added: will need more code for added products
order type + amount
mass orders and giving either a discount for wholesale or a letter to management

Starting point:
Well, I think I'll start on the browser side stuff first, as it seems pretty hard to muck up, is independant and easier to research

:hungover:

:playful:
 
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OverByte

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I would suggest looking for a library that already handles the sales / authentication and integrating that oppose to writing one from scratch (not sure if that's what you are proposing).
 
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RogueInnovation

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I would suggest looking for a library that already handles the sales / authentication and integrating that oppose to writing one from scratch (not sure if that's what you are proposing).

I just wanted to scare myself into learning so got over zealous ;)
I wanna understand it all, so that I grow my coding rather than my cut and pasting ;).

I must admit, comprehending all this gave me brain indigestion, but it is good, haha.
I'll make sure that I don't write out the whole thing, but that as I get towards finalising things and have done all diligence that I integrate as you said (good idea).

Thanks!
 
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OverByte

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It's noble goal but I see a lot of failed projects start with this. Example first android game I made was for android 1.5 I did the whole thing in OpenGL without any game engine because somehow it felt wrong using what someone else built. The end result was that the game was shit because I just didn't have enough time to do everything. Fast forward with lessons learned and I am about to release another game using Unity and it is incomparable.

Remember that we stand on the shoulders of giants. Don't feel guilty using what someone else built and intended for it to be used.

I'm a professional software engineer and we always opt to use libraries than write in house because it's cheaper, less risk (the libraries are usually well tested) and faster to deploy. Only write yourself what doesn't exist. It won't hinder your learning. And for something handling money and user accounts I would definitely want something thoroughly tested and deployed.

Anyway do with the knowledge as you see fit. Good luck.
 

RogueInnovation

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I'll think on what you said

But initially it makes sense

Now I do not have to create the zenshin code, BUT I do have to make sure that is the result.
Code without purpose isnt what I'm after.
I'm looking to help develop code harmony for the business I undertake on the web.
So, no afternoon hacker code ;)

What you've said sounds in line with what I aim for.
I wonder why I'm tackling it the way I am...
Or how I missed that point.

Maybe my head is too close to the grindstone.

Thanks for the spot

Edit:
I reviewed and assessed this.

I think that I was differentiating
Learning from doing it the right way, like there is a difference, when there isn't

You can only learn when you do it the right way.
IF you step up, you have to step up RIGHT, because if you don't you become OK with mediocre.

I let something in my thought process get to me.
I can't do that.

images

images
 
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RogueInnovation

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Project One v2.0:
Know what you want

A well fit selling system for my projects.
Figure out exactly what that means.
Waste as little time as possible.
Learn how to be effective.


somehow it felt wrong using what someone else built

Its emotional greed.
I know what it must look like, like someone thinking they can "take on the whole system" because "its not good enough" when they don't even know that.
Reality will not make them a success, it will go against them.
They then start to say "its not fair" and try to impose their will on it, rather than LISTEN.

If only they could instead realise that they are not making it more substantial, but less substantial.

Remember that we stand on the shoulders of giants. Don't feel guilty using what someone else built and intended for it to be used

So THIS is what it takes to be credible. A feeling of mutual responsibility and understanding.

So my mindset is off...
I need to get in touch with reality.

It's noble goal but...

Yes. It is "noble", but do I want to be noble (make excuses), or do I want to CODE professionally.
I should wanna code.


I should develop a process.
And strive for honesty in all code practices and learning.

learning it when you need to learn it

I wonder if this can mean that you shouldn't take advice too literally but just be your own kind of coder and take accountability for projects, more than worry about anything.
 
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RogueInnovation

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Its emotional greed

It must come from me sensing I don't at all have a grasp on this. A kind of brave face foolhardy.
I would break down and have a cry about it... :p ... but I think it is better to just gather my wits and say "ok!".

In every journey there is a place where you just continually s#ck no matter what you do. I am here, in suckville. Now, what will I do to learn the REAL way! How will I see that a braveface is pointless? How will I know that only intelligence in the moment matters? How will I start to "get it" and work on things at every turn?

I certainly do need to improve myself that way, or I'll just "hang around". I get how important that is to change. I get that I am being too rigid and I need to find the right things, not just use what is in front of me.

I need to get up, get out there and change this.
I can't possibly comprehend HOW, I just have to comprehend need, and do.
Maybe it will come, maybe I'll have to chase it down, maybe it has a little set of tricks and ideas hidden somewhere deep inside it that I have to find, point is, no matter what it is, I gotta try, or I'll not "get" anything.

Maybe have fun, be positive and play while developing a core conviction that drives my inner push.
 
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RogueInnovation

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I can't code yet, but one of the most interesting things I've learned is that the code isn't nearly as important as understanding the BUSINESS within the considerations of the project.

I feel it adds an extra level of "process" and allows me to think deeply on how my websites etc can be optimised without even writing a single line.

For example, I have a manufacturing fastlane I'm setting up, and I was originally thinking "duh! Just create a sales page and you are done", but now I see that, just a page like that won't create trust, it won't give feedback to the human experience of needing to process, feel, evaluate.

Just by scrutinising the code, I start spontaneously seeing the business, and realise, that if you assume any aspect of your business is superficial you are likely very wrong.
This is why big companies employ THE BEST, because if they are asleep at the wheel on this, at least someone is there to catch them and cushion that blow for the company.

You can trust other people, but NOT those who don't see the connection to business experiences.
Do they deserve partnership, a wage, what?
I would say that IF they are handling your ignorance, then pay is a secondary question because it'll be hard to find a good partner anyways because of that.
I would say that, MOST programmers that can't catch you are worth peanuts, but those few that "get it" are worth the same amount as a financial advisor in your operations.

I don't think you can just throw money at this problem to make it go away, you have to build trust in people, in a process, and in understanding this aspect of the business if you have it.
Its a critical customer service.

IF you are just blogging or whatever, you don't need this stuff, thats just overkill, what you need it for is for large scale credibility, outside of personalised purchases that are bought on impulse.
It deepens the rapport you can create, and not because of the code, but because you are not squeemish about thinking about this side of your business.


If you do anything in business, do it smart, code is no different.


Now that I get that, it is just a footrace for fun, a search for a little more truth, and further business diligence.
I could certainly outsource this stuff to the right team, so I'm going to specialise on vision more than testing and engineering.

I know engineering is important for coders and I will progress on that too, but, business first.
Code in and of itself is kinda dumb unless you know how to weave in the business, but the process and the learning can amplify what you already have going for you.

If code was a sword, I would say that business is what you engrave into it and design it for but also its sheath.

Im very wary of hype people that are blind to the business, I dont want that near my operations. Code as a competancy/skill is different from code as a business, but when someone has biz too I'll note it and appreciate that.
 
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RogueInnovation

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I've been in two worlds about coding, on one hand what a time suck and why even do it

Its not sucking my time anymore, after the first two weeks I have the habits of learninmg it and growing with it squared away

who is anyone kidding by saying that their code is going to be good enough in every situation I ever require it for

This is far more true than I anticipated, in that people will ignore your details unless you make it absolutely clear and will provide you with stock standard blehk.

BUSINESS FIRST THOUGH!!!

I've been getting back to business and letting myself silently progress at code.
I should be able to design something fairly reasonable soon.
I think that projects require a kind of see-sawing on them as you better define roles and how you'll organise things.


Code, seems to make more sense when you don't think of it as code but as a sequence that needs harmony. If you force the sequence of events you will come against the thorns, but if you open up and think of the most harmonious way, it starts to fall together a lot better.
As a result, I feel that a harmonious sequence is paramount, and differentiation is important in order to show any thorns or holes.

I've been coding just really gently, seeing what goes together versus what is weird, and just been using my intuition and taking it excrutiatingly slow.

Hopefully I can get some code examples up soon.


My emotions sometimes fight good code in order to SNATCH progress, but its a bad idea to follow that, so most of my skill has been focused at being very very calm. Just letting things be chaotic, and moving slowly forwards, checking my tracks.

I have a lot of opinions but none of them matter, so I really am not paying attention to it, because until good results have been created, its just a distraction. So for the most part I'm just remaining quiet and stoic, on the lookout for great process and clues for creating nice results, there isn't a lot more I can do.

Its clearly going to take me some time. And in accepting that, I can already feel success, because the small things I do today, are the building blocks for tomorrow.
:smoking:
 
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