Legalized Scamming (Rental Property Stories from HELL)

[jon.a]

Great tips. I have the same experiences and share your philosophy.

Fair housing laws say that you must rent to the first qualified renter that meets your criteria. You could be hit real hard if you were found guilty of this. Be careful.

I inform all prospects that...

I require 3 times the rent in income. Verified.
I will do complete criminal and credit background checks. Which BTW will cost them $35 for each adult. Verified.
No convictions or evictions for the past 20 years. Verified.
Our houses are under market rent to increase the pool.

Verified.

I get a return call from about 5% of those that I speak to. Next.

 

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[Boo Blizzi]

I inform all prospects that...

I require 3 times the rent in income. Verified.
I will do complete criminal and credit background checks. Which BTW will cost them $35 for each adult. Verified.
No convictions or evictions for the past 20 years. Verified.
Our houses are under market rent to increase the pool.

Verified.

I get a return call from about 5% of those that I speak to. Next.

I would have stricter rules if I my units weren't in a low income area... I tried having a credit check criteria when I first got started and had 80% vacancies for that year... killed me on mtg and the bump with vacant insurance so I just accepted the fact that sect8 was my best bet in the area and went that route.

 

[jon.a]

I would have stricter rules if I my units weren't in a low income area... I tried having a credit check criteria when I first got started and had 80% vacancies for that year... killed me on mtg and the bump with vacant insurance so I just accepted the fact that sect8 was my best bet in the area and went that route.

If you stay a little below market (about 10%), you get more to choose from. Our inventory isn't the lowest income. But, it is on the low end of SFR's. There are few small "houses" for rent in our town. Our 2/1 that we're turning over this week is the only vacancy of it's type in town.

 

[D11FYY]

My Dad rents out a few houses and I help him on finding new tenants we simply just meet the person and judge them on how they come across. Try find out a bit of background information on them aka where they are living just now (check it out if its sitting like a dump they are definitely not going to take care of your property) check them out on Facebook/Twitter etc. If they are constantly updating about wild partys etc then they are not the tenant for you. Fair enough its their privacy but its our property.
Also my Dad takes £0 deposit but gets a contract written by his lawyer that if any damages or the property isnt left in the condition that it was rented out as then they are liable for all costs and legal expenses. Seems to work fine for him.
Oh and the important thing we advertise just that little bit dearer £50-75 than the closest property it somehow helps filter the scum that extra cash.

In America could you not get your lawyers to do the same basically let them sign a contract wavering their human/domestic rights in terms of agreement in living in your apartment. That means you are not liable for nothing other than keeping the property to a satisfactory living standard.
Sorry if this barely makes sense I am typing with one eye open.

 

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[vinylawesome]

My Dad rents out a few houses and I help him on finding new tenants we simply just meet the person and judge them on how they come across. Try find out a bit of background information on them aka where they are living just now (check it out if its sitting like a dump they are definitely not going to take care of your property) check them out on Facebook/Twitter etc. If they are constantly updating about wild partys etc then they are not the tenant for you. Fair enough its their privacy but its our property.
Also my Dad takes £0 deposit but gets a contract written by his lawyer that if any damages or the property isnt left in the condition that it was rented out as then they are liable for all costs and legal expenses. Seems to work fine for him.
Oh and the important thing we advertise just that little bit dearer £50-75 than the closest property it somehow helps filter the scum that extra cash.

In America could you not get your lawyers to do the same basically let them sign a contract wavering their human/domestic rights in terms of agreement in living in your apartment. That means you are not liable for nothing other than keeping the property to a satisfactory living standard.
Sorry if this barely makes sense I am typing with one eye open.

Well the reason for the deposit is to take care of damages. At the very least some of the damages that may be incurred during the course of a rental period.

Thus, a contract without deposit seems good in theory. However, you are placing your faith in the court system to get your money for you.

While a rental agreement "contract" with; First, Last, and deposit helps mitigate "some" of the downside in the course of the rental period. "This is the common system in the U.S. and may be different from Scotland."

Where I am from it is impossible to Squeeze blood out of a turnip.

 

[D11FYY]

Well the reason for the deposit is to take care of damages. At the very least some of the damages that may be incurred during the course of a rental period.

Thus, a contract without deposit seems good in theory. However, you are placing your faith in the court system to get your money for you.

While a rental agreement "contract" with; First, Last, and deposit helps mitigate "some" of the downside in the course of the rental period. "This is the common system in the U.S. and may be different from Scotland."

Where I am from it is impossible to Squeeze blood out of a turnip.

Yeah we take photos of the propertys before anyone moves in - in detail.
Where is it you are from? Thats what im saying could a contract not be written and agreed to by a tenant so that they cant file for BS claims against you.

 

[vinylawesome]

Yeah we take photos of the propertys before anyone moves in - in detail.
Where is it you are from? Thats what im saying could a contract not be written and agreed to by a tenant so that they cant file for BS claims against you.

U.S. California.

You can sue for pretty much anything here. Thus, results may vary in your country.

 

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[Boo Blizzi]

Where I am from it is impossible to Squeeze blood out of a turnip.

^^THIS

 

[GuestUser113]

An update on these toolbags.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/airbnb-squatter-says-totally-squat-155539027.html

These two little tweedle-dee needles are going to piss off the wrong person. Doesn't look they could fight themselves out of a wet paper bag.

Here is the first kickstarter campaign in question - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/829559023/confederate-express

 

[Pete799p]

I used to do the same thing for a PE company in Chicago. Some of the stories are so crazy that people think you're making them up because that kind of stuff doesn't happen in the US. Including a dead body in a bath tub with a bullet in his head.

Few things that I learned:
- Try to find and hire a local manager that lives in the neighborhood. Then use software to track and make sure they do what they say. This is not an easy task to find the right person but I have met and worked with some really great managers that can make these buildings run better then most. Working those neighborhoods, and getting money out of people who dont have much is really an art.
- Even the best run buildings typically run at an 85% vacancy rate. The only aspect you can really control is the amount of true physical vacancy, which you need to market like crazy to fill quickly. This might be 5% or less the reaming 10% will be for collections, most of which you will never see again, or spend on repairs. As always there are outliers.
- Use move in fees instead of deposits. You collect them from everybody and they are non refundable. Although there is new legislation currently being proposed to end these they are much better then deposits. You don't have to keep them in an interest baring account, track them, and then itemize the inevitable damages that you will use the money to repair when they move out. They are trying to put in new laws about these and your state's milage may very but it's something to look into.
- Try to avoid central heat buildings unless the numbers are really worth it. The amount of false heat calls you will receive is staggering. If you do have a central heat building invest in one of those laser thermometers. You will spend a good portion of each day temp testing units to demonstrate they are in fact warm enough, also include a policy in your lease that after the first call all false heat calls you will charge them. Buy a box of cheap dollar store thermometers to hand out to the tenants who complain about the heat and consequent charges. Another major downside to heat paid buildings is that if tenants are cold they will often use their stove or oven to heat the place. I once went into a unit for an emergency water leak where no body was home and all 4 burners on their gas stove were left on high.
- Everything after I couldn't pay you because...is a lie. Treat it as such and start the eviction process immediately, figure out exactly what your policy is to start eviction and stick to it. We used 1months rent plus $150. If they are actually a good tenant explain to them that you are over the threshold, don't tell them what that is, and that although you really like them and want to keep them in your building the process starts automatically unless you can get me some money before x deadline. Its not your fault you like them but management has their policies that you just cannot control.
- Never let them know you are the owner or the decision maker. Remove yourself personally from all interactions. You always have to check with management or it's managements fault that you couldnt give them x. It's against policy and you're just trying to do your job, you are working for them. Make them feel that you are on their side doing everything you can to help them from the "man". Never be "the man"

I could go on for days but hope this helps, good luck on your exit. I will say the multifamily market is strong and liquidity has returned to many of these markets so hopefully you will be able to make your exit.

 

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[pro]

Id retitle this thread Maksym Pashanin and Denys Pashanin scam

 

[Testament]

From the sound of it, the landlord was dealing with a bonafide sociopath(s). From a google search on "percentage of sociopaths in the general population":

1. In her 2005 book The Sociopath Next Door, psychologist Martha Stout warned that sociopaths make up four percent of the U.S. population; last spring, journalist Jon Ronson detailed his search for psychopathy from prisons to boardrooms in The Psychopath Test.

That's 4 out of every 100 people! :O

I've had a few different friends who've had run-ins in their businesses with genuine sociopaths. The tip off is how unbelievably brazen their scams are, plus a complete lack of remorse or shame when caught.

 

[jon.a]

From the sound of it, the landlord was dealing with a bonafide sociopath(s). From a google search on "percentage of sociopaths in the general population":

1. In her 2005 book The Sociopath Next Door, psychologist Martha Stout warned that sociopaths make up four percent of the U.S. population; last spring, journalist Jon Ronson detailed his search for psychopathy from prisons to boardrooms in The Psychopath Test.

That's 4 out of every 100 people! :O

I've had a few different friends who've had run-ins in their businesses with genuine sociopaths. The tip off is how unbelievably brazen their scams are, plus a complete lack of remorse or shame when caught.

And, the mentally ill are a protected class.

 

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[Testament]

And, the mentally ill are a protected class.

Gaaah! Protect our deranged psychos! They didn't MEAN to rip you off and possibly ruin you...honest, they just couldn't help it.

 

[jon.a]

Gaaah! Protect our deranged psychos! They didn't MEAN to rip you off and possibly ruin you...honest, they just couldn't help it.

You can't discriminate against them in the selection process because they're fine when they're on their meds. So, you need firm quantifiable standards.

 

[Mattie]

I always find it interesting when section 8 or poverty is scum on the forum. I believe M.J. had so much money, lived on a mattress, and was in poverty. Section 8 is just people in poverty, perhaps some have to survive their just to get to where M.J. is today. I saw a life coach website that some woman bragged about being homeless 3 times and doing it again just because she likes how it makes her get out of her comfort zone. This world is funny sometimes, and how many scum bags became millionaires in their life stories to millionaire or billionaire. Guess Liz Murray-Homeless to Harvard is one of them scum bags. The list of scum bags that became millionaires.http://www.businesspundit.com/10-millionaires-who-lived-on-the-streets/

 

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[jon.a]

I always find it interesting when section 8 or poverty is scum on the forum. I believe M.J. had so much money, lived on a mattress, and was in poverty. Section 8 is just people in poverty, perhaps some have to survive their just to get to where M.J. is today. I saw a life coach website that some woman bragged about being homeless 3 times and doing it again just because she likes how it makes her get out of her comfort zone. This world is funny sometimes, and how many scum bags became millionaires in their life stories to millionaire or billionaire. Guess Liz Murray-Homeless to Harvard is one of them scum bags. The list of scum bags that became millionaires.http://www.businesspundit.com/10-millionaires-who-lived-on-the-streets/

Were you responding to someone in particular and chose not to use reply?

 

[Mattie]

Yes, sorry! I forget because I don't usually hang out in forums.

 

[jon.a]

Yes, sorry! I forget because I don't usually hang out in forums.

OR, because it's Sunday afternoon and some of us have fun on Sunday afternoons...

YOU TALKING TO ME???

 

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[Mattie]

Nope! Parkers Mama Said Stay away from section 8 because they're all scum bags. lol Yes we like to have fun too! He shouldn't be hanging out with M.J. than cause he was once in poverty too! lol Those scum bags might turn into millionaires and they're a real bad influence when they get rich! lol

 

[Chazmania]

@Boo Blizzi -

Renting to sec 8 and low income housing is like preparing for war every day! I'm a landlord too and my god we need to approach the welfare types so much differently. It's a completely different strategy.

It's very profitable though when executed properly - but really need to think of every move like chess cuz you know they're always looking for a way to get over on you. Remember that if they get evicted they can get thrown off sec 8. That puts some pressure on them to comply but u gotta rule with the iron fist. That means if they don't pay me by the 5th, I file on the 6th - period. And keep the places maintained so if u end up in court they can't cry slumlord.

 

[firmwear]

From the sound of it, the landlord was dealing with a bonafide sociopath(s). From a google search on "percentage of sociopaths in the general population":

1. In her 2005 book The Sociopath Next Door, psychologist Martha Stout warned that sociopaths make up four percent of the U.S. population; last spring, journalist Jon Ronson detailed his search for psychopathy from prisons to boardrooms in The Psychopath Test.

That's 4 out of every 100 people! :O

I've had a few different friends who've had run-ins in their businesses with genuine sociopaths. The tip off is how unbelievably brazen their scams are, plus a complete lack of remorse or shame when caught.

Oh man, I think you called this one.

I was staring at the posted picture wondering why I was getting some kind of weird vibe from that pair.

I know it is not scientific, but there is something about their eyes that look kind of flat and glassy to me. Their eyes do not match their smiles, as if they were dead serious on the inside and have been practicing their smiles in front of a mirror all day.

I am not sure if I quite believe the 4% ratio, but I think you are right about this pair being sociopaths. Woah, the implication that you can have sociopath families creeps me out!

 

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[Mattie]

There is complete madness in this world, I'll say that much. I want out of here. We're trapped in a globe.

 

[jon.a]

There is complete madness in this world, I'll say that much. I want out of here. We're trapped in a globe.

Planet Earth is "hell" for some alien planet.

 

[PopEmersen]

I know it is not scientific, but there is something about their eyes that look kind of flat and glassy to me. Their eyes do not match their smiles, as if they were dead serious on the inside and have been practicing their smiles in front of a mirror all day.

I know this my seem crazy, but I agree. People's eyes tell the story and those guys have those crazy eyes. The eyes dont match the expression theyr're conveying. I see it in some people alot.

 

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[Mattie]

Hey, if we were smart we would put all our money together and create a new galaxy where madness and hell doesn't exist. We could wear alien goggles and see their true exterior. Be delivered from a life sentence of being trapped in a world of insanity imposed on us by others imaginations.

 

[Geeko]

Hey, if we were smart we would put all our money together and create a new galaxy where madness and hell doesn't exist. We could wear alien goggles and see their true exterior. Be delivered from a life sentence of being trapped in a world of insanity imposed on us by others imaginations.

There is a group of 10 men and women (maybe 4 idk) that are pretty much paying to be the first people to live on mars. It isnt nasa stuff, its all self funded. I believe there isnt a way to get back from mars so theyre stuck up there for their lifespan. I will find the website once im at a cpu.
To bring it more off topic... they dont allow intercouse between the astronauts(?). If they follow the rules then in 40yrs there will be 10 dead bodies being hurled around in a sandstorm.
I can only imagine a physopath making it through their screening process. That sounds like a good horror movie to me. Only form of communication is video/audio chat which is delayed by 7-9 minutes.
Sorry for so off topic but i saw physcopath and space stuff.

Edit: http://www.mars-one.com/

 

[jon.a]

Perception is the perceivers reality.

I heard this as a young man and realized it to be profound.

Barring dealing with a lair, this knowledge has been helpful when trying to see something from anothers point of view. This understanding can be both very powerful and very scary.

Examples...

1. I was dealing with a tenant candidate that was concerned about paying me for his background check in advance. He's perception was that some landlords take the money and pocket it as a small profit stream, which is in fact true. So, I changed my process and let him pay for his check directly. Perception made irrelevant.

2. Mrs. jon and I manage a family trust. From time to time we are presented with "things" that we just don't want to deal with. We wait a day and tell the "thing" presenter that the Trust Attorney said no. Their perception is that the Trust Attorney is a force not to be questioned. Perception hammered the subject closed.

3. Many humans believe their universe to be controlled by a supreme power. This supreme power takes many forms. When facing one of these humans I must realize their perceptions and understand that arguing isn't going to work. If their belief isn't going to permit working with them, then I must find another human. Perception acknowledged.

4. Some humans see and hear things that most of us don't. My perception is that I'm safer to leave them alone.

Lastly, what if the Matrix is true?

 

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[SteveO]

Planet Earth is "hell" for some alien planet.

This is a world full of wonder and excitement. Our little "hells" are our own invention.

 

[EnglandBorn]

I don't think they expected to receive this much media attention, or any at all.

It's just "unfortunate" for them that an AirBnB scam story is going to be picked up by the world news.

This means it will be the last time they will be able to pull this scam.

Nothing they've done will land them in jail so far, but I doubt they will be able to do another "loophole" play like this again.

Hopefully they will graduate to real criminal activities and find themselves either in prison or dead in short order

An update on these toolbags.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/airbnb-squatter-says-totally-squat-155539027.html

These two little tweedle-dee needles are going to piss off the wrong person. Doesn't look they could fight themselves out of a wet paper bag.