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Being rich vs being upper class

Anything related to matters of the mind

DurianGray

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Some people say America doesn't have a class system, that it is only a remnant of aristocratic Europe. I strongly disagree. Now more than ever, the 1% have more power and money than ever. Being rich isn't enough.

When people on this forum talk about the mindset, it is primarily from the lower/middle class. From them it is primarily about money: How to become financially independent and how to generate passive income. Depending on your age and stage in life, that may be the best plan of action. However, to those in the teens and mid twenties I would argue instead that it would be wiser to seek power and be a little more ambitious.

As Frank Underwood from House of Cards best put it: "Money is the Mc-mansion in Sarasota that starts falling apart after 10 years. Power is the old stone building that stands for centuries. I cannot respect someone who doesn’t see the difference." I wholeheartedly agree.

I want to discuss the mindset of the upper class. I personally came from a working class family that somehow managed to send their kid to a fancy high school. Talk about a whole different world. Often I was the only minority in the classroom. My peers were kids of the corporate elite, nephews of prominent politicians, and old money. Kids who get into elite universities on the basis of legacy. I realized that connections and social status are more important than money. The poor and middle class believe that social status follows money, except in reality, it is the exact opposite.

If you are focused on the long term vision, as in generations, you would want to position yourself into becoming old money. Climbing the social ladder and becoming wealthy is ingrained in the American psyche. Even right here, in this forum, we can see from the avatar of @MJ DeMarco that this has at least crossed his mind. No wonder "The Great Gatsby" is an American classic.

Currently I am focused on acquiring a fortune. I have my sights above being just an ebay power seller/ amazon seller/ ebook writer / affiliate marketer / SEO guru / vitamin hawker. I'm not there yet, but I have my goal, and it's just not only getting rich.

Comments and criticisms welcome.
 
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adoredunchin

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Even right here, in this forum, we can see from the avatar of @MJ DeMarco that this has at least crossed his mind. No wonder "The Great Gatsby" is an American classic.
As far as I know MJ chose that avatar because he sees Gatsby as someone that didn't provide any value and is just a crook. I would say the chose the picture to not identify with him and be the opposite. But perhaps he jumps on here later.

On the subject: I would say Power and Money come hand in hand. But everything comes down to value. If you provide people with value you can gain either money or power or both. What you like more is obviously your choice and most do it for money.
 

MJ DeMarco

I followed the science; all I found was money.
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I chose the avatar because of the expression on his face ... it says to me "Enjoy life old sport". I also was sent the image by someone who said "Thank you" to me for writing my book. Sorry, but there is no subliminal meaning to it insofar as the Gatsby movie/person himself.
 

RogueInnovation

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(here is my friendly criticism, I liked your post for some reason, not that I agree with it)
when-the-power-of-love-overcomes-the-love-of-power-the-world-will-know-peace_177440199.jpg



Power is weaker now than ever
Better to understand control and how to set goals/live a good life free of this ego mumbo jumbo

Love is becoming part of our social currency,
The industrial revolution is over,
Now is a creative period in human history, precipitated by awareness of faults in our leaders.

You can't simply state legacy as much as before.
I just think upper class are burying their inner sidewalker by trusting in power handed down to them by others.

Yes you can be a gold diggin douche, but there is more power inside people than these oldguard bs tactics
 
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James Fake

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like @kaloenneli said...

It's all about Value. There's different levels of values, we mostly think in terms of resources which is fine in creating wealth. But power and value go hand in hand, just depends on the power of your value. For instance:

Let's say the world blew up and only a few was left; what would be the first thing you would want to control to have "value" in the new world?
Water and Weapons. Whoever controls those sources aka "value" would probably be the one with the most value, power, and influence. You could go and try to control all the corn, but corn has less value than water and weapons..

Choose your chase of your "value" to the world wisely..
 

Ninjakid

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I have to say, you make a really good point, and congrats for being able to see the difference. I myself have been aware of this for a while, but have never really openly talked about it.
Most people more money will change your social position. That's true, and it's not true. But undoubtedly, in a capitalist society, money gives you the ability to experience more things, and in particular, passive income gives you freedom of not having to check into a job. Just about every upper class person in a capitalist society has personal wealth, or family wealth.
Upper class is exactly as the name implies: the upper, more prestigious, and or more powerful part of society. In the Victorian era in England, many upper class (or the aristocracy) was determined by your family name. Many of the bourgeois were actually more wealthy than the aristocrats, who's source of wealth was primarily land-ownership, but the aristocratic class had more political power, and were held in higher regard, therefore they were the true upper-class. In feudal Japan, the upper-class was the samurai, but they lived off a salary from the rulers. Some of the merchants, who were actually considered at the bottom of the four-tier-system, were a lot wealthier than the samurai, and they could use their wealth to have political influence.
I'll use America as an example, because most of the people here are from America. The people who have power in America are the politicians, and big-business owners etc. If you're a tycoon, you are responsible for thousands of people having jobs or not having jobs, which they require to make their living. Also their decisions drive the economy. GM is a good example of a business with massive effect on the economy. There's not as much reason to appease the guy who just won $100m in the lottery, or the guy who makes a decent living off ebooks or affiliate marketing because they aren't responsible for the same scale of power. Even if you have a huge lump of cash and a reliable stream of passive income, you might be only living your daily life going to different restaurants or buying new cars; basically having the money to enjoy your life. There`s nothing wrong with that, but that`s the difference between someone who`s just rich, and someone who`s part of the powerful class.
 

Ninjakid

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To add to what DurianGray was saying about the mindset of working class or middle class about being rich, I would say most of these people want to be rich so that they can live a more comfortable and carefree lifestyle, and not have to worry about bills to pay.
The upper-class on the other hand live far from stress-free lives. In fact, I`ve read that once you become a billionare, you have far less freedom than you did before, because now you have shareholders to appease, a public image to uphold, employees that are your responsibility, global issues because your company works in dangerous parts of the world, and you need to have protection from people who would kidnap you or hurt you because of your position and influence.
I`m sure if you asked people if they want to be rich, just about everyone would say yes. But I think an overwhelming majority would not want the kind of stresses that come with being part of the upper-class.
 
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James Fake

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or the guy who makes a decent living off ebooks or affiliate marketing because they aren't responsible for the same scale of power. Even if you have a huge lump of cash and a reliable stream of passive income, you might be only living your daily life going to different restaurants or buying new cars; basically having the money to enjoy your life. There`s nothing wrong with that, but that`s the difference between someone who`s just rich, and someone who`s part of the powerful class.

Perfectly said. The value of value. Enough value to be rich, not enough value to be powerful.
 

Ninjakid

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Perfectly said. The value of value. Enough value to be rich, not enough value to be powerful.

The value of value is exactly it man, because back in the day, if you were selling the guns, the food, or the furs, you would be both rich and powerful, because those were the basics that people needed to survive.
 

RogueInnovation

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The upper-class on the other hand live far from stress-free lives. In fact, I`ve read that once you become a billionare, you have far less freedom than you did before, because now you have shareholders to appease, a public image to uphold, employees that are your responsibility, global issues because your company works in dangerous parts of the world, and you need to have protection from people who would kidnap you or hurt you because of your position and influence.

Its one thing to SAY another to experience it.

Don't knock it till you try it :p

Responsibility for others isn't so bad,
We all have images to uphold,
And the kidnapping weirdos probably don't read forbes, and will have better targets than you :p (they probably target clothes rings etc)


I get attacked just cuz I walk tall in some countries, when I have like 2 cents in my pocket, know what I do?
Hand their *sses to them, and stomp on their hand until they cry ;)

With money it just amplifies who you are, so I'd be just far better at it :hilarious:
 
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Ninjakid

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Its one thing to SAY another to experience it.

Don't knock it till you try it :p

Responsibility for others isn't so bad,
We all have images to uphold,
And the kidnapping weirdos probably don't read forbes, and will have better targets than you :p (they probably target clothes rings etc)


I get attacked just cuz I walk tall in some countries, when I have like 2 cents in my pocket, know what I do?
Hand their *sses to them, and stomp on their hand until they cry ;)

With money it just amplifies who you are, so I'd be just far better at it :hilarious:

Note that I said I've read it. I'm not saying this, I'm saying billionaires have said it. Some people (like me) are totally okay with it.

And you're missing the point of what I'm saying. I'm pointing out the differences of those who are rich and those who are upper-class. Yeah, shit can happen to anyone, but people usually face different types of problems depending on their niche
 

RogueInnovation

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you're missing the point of what I'm saying

I got what you said :)
Don't worry it came across, and I'm not picking at it (or at least don't mean to)

I just think its important to balance fear with a little spunk ;)
I once actually was a bit apprehensive of making money so I just extract that part, and add an additional note (not saying you lack that).

Life is better as a challenge rather than as "perfected routines", you shouldn't plan it out as "I'll make precisely enough" cuz its masturbation, you'll have a hard time making what you make and then you'll either make it or not. Its like playing with barbie dolls "I'm gonna have this husband and this dress", its all gonna blow up when reality hits.

Take it, reject it, whatever you like. Glad you ain't afraid of crims, I worked around them for years, (dude I know got stabbed) as a result I think they are more concerned selling drugs etc than much else.

/random tangent
 
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Chazmania

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I realized that connections and social status are more important than money. The poor and middle class believe that social status follows money, except in reality, it is the exact opposite.

One of the Rothschilds said it best:

Money to get power - Power to protect money.

They're forever intertwined and it does seem that money comes first. Old money started somewhere in the past and created the legacy that your fellow students enjoyed.
 
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Tengen

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Here's a little quote from and old and esoteric novel I enjoy reading:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibumi_(novel)

Above all, he came to recognize that all Americans were merchants, that the core of the American Genius, of the Yankee Spirit, was buying and selling. They vended their democratic ideology like hucksters, supported by the great protection racket of armaments deals and economic pressures. Their wars were monumental exercises in production and supply. Their government was a series of social contracts. Their education was sold as so much per unit hour. Their marriages were emotional deals, the contracts easily broken if one party failed in his debt-servicing. Honor for them consisted in fair trading.

And they were not, as they thought, a classless society; they were a one-class society—the mercantile. Their elite were the rich; their workers and farmers were best viewed as flawed and failed scramblers up the middle-class monetary ladder. The peasants and proletariat of America had values identical to those of the insurance salesmen and business executives, the only difference being that these values were expressed in more modest fiscal terms: the motor boat rather than the yacht; the bowling league rather than the country club; Atlantic City rather than Monaco.
 

DurianGray

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I'm liking the conversation going on this thread.

To clarify, what currently is on my mind is: social status. You can't buy that. (Or can you??)

Everyone has to choose their niche. However, there are "professions" that are generally looked down upon. Merchants in the past were frowned upon. That is why the Jews got those jobs. I may personally disagree, but that is what western society thinks. For example, many women wouldn't do porn even though it pays well just because of the general social degrading effect.

I was talking to a colleague of mines from school. Catching up, I was explaining what I was doing online - ecommerce (buying/selling/hustling). I got a look of disgust/intrigue. I could have been an engineer/politician/doctor/lawyer/professor. An "honourable" profession. I'm now seen as wasted potential.

Maybe it is best not to think about it. Maybe to not care what society thinks. But humans are social creatures and it is tough to not care.

My 2 cents.
 

liquidglass

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A lot of great posts here so far and put far better than my post will be!

The VALUE that your provide is where your POWER is derived from. Coincidentally by providing great VALUE you will gain great WEALTH and POWER.

If your mission is to provide wonderful value then wealth and power will not be far behind. You will have power because your provide what is valuable to people, you will have money because people will pay for your value.
 
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liquidglass

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I'm liking the conversation going on this thread.

To clarify, what currently is on my mind is: social status. You can't buy that. (Or can you??)

Everyone has to choose their niche. However, there are "professions" that are generally looked down upon. Merchants in the past were frowned upon. That is why the Jews got those jobs. I may personally disagree, but that is what western society thinks. For example, many women wouldn't do porn even though it pays well just because of the general social degrading effect.

I was talking to a colleague of mines from school. Catching up, I was explaining what I was doing online - ecommerce (buying/selling/hustling). I got a look of disgust/intrigue. I could have been an engineer/politician/doctor/lawyer/professor. An "honourable" profession. I'm now seen as wasted potential.

Maybe it is best not to think about it. Maybe to not care what society thinks. But humans are social creatures and it is tough to not care.

My 2 cents.

When you're living the life you want, driving the car you want, vacationing where you want, all of a sudden they won't care what your profession is. This isn't to say that you have to be braggadocios or gaudy for them to notice. Like you said people are social creatures....they'll always notice no matter how subtle it is.

Just a quick reminder....MJ is where he is because his journey started as a limo driver, onto a website developer, etc. Do you look at him as wasted potential?
 

The Abundant Man

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When you're living the life you want, driving the car you want, vacationing where you want, all of a sudden they won't care what your profession is. This isn't to say that you have to be braggadocios or gaudy for them to notice. Like you said people are social creatures....they'll always notice no matter how subtle it is.

Just a quick reminder....MJ is where he is because his journey started as a limo driver, onto a website developer, etc. Do you look at him as wasted potential?
Reminds me of this:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5zJoaJXbiE



Jacob: Are you the billionaire owner of Apple Computers?

Cal: No.

Jacob: Oh, ok. In that case, you've got no right to wear New Balance sneakers, ever!
 

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