GO TO COLLEGE... A little Rant.

[FastlaneTiger]

Pros of college:
- usually leads to steady slowlane employment which can put food on the table and experience in your brain while you work on your fastlane on the side
- can in very limited situations lead to lucrative slowlane employment - banking, law, etc.
- you learn things at a high level (but not things that can't be learned outside of school)

Cons of college:
- can be prohibitively expensive - may not earn a return on the investment
- opportunity cost (time that could be spent on fastlane venture) is significant - 4 years
- a moderate likelihood you won't even use what you learned

^

Do we really have to fight about this anymore? Stop being so insecure about your decision, because if you fight about it you are freakin' insecure about your decision or you are just simply immature.
If you want to go to college then go there but if you don't then don't. SIMPLE. We had a discussion about the Pros and Cons of it. Now it's enough.
Stop fighting for Pete's sake.

 

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[SteveO]

Pros of college:
- usually leads to steady slowlane employment which can put food on the table and experience in your brain while you work on your fastlane on the side
- can in very limited situations lead to lucrative slowlane employment - banking, law, etc.
- you learn things at a high level (but not things that can't be learned outside of school)

A major pro that was missed.... Can help you acquire capital (which so few seem to have) with your high income. This capital can go toward your fastlane ventures.

 

[SteveO]

There is nothing wrong with the debate. If anyone does not like the banter, they don't have to read the thread. This thread generates a lot of discussion and emotion with some people which means it is relevant.

Of course some of us just want to prove a point.

 

[SteveO]

You can view the many different paths that will take you to the top of the mountain. Each will have its own challenges. Some of them may require special equipment or certain climbing skills but each will get you to the top. Pick one and climb....

 

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[Tregan]

"That debt is a mfer,"

Yes it is, just today I was reminded my forbearance is ending on my loans and they want their $50,000.

College is a joke, a scam

 

[jake1720]

I'm doing 6 years in college because of health problems. Parents paid for most of it. I'm also studying petroleum engineering. So I can have a sweet slow lane job, additionally look in industry for fastlane opportunities. There has been many fortunes made in oil, so I might find it there.

If you're not going to get in a ton of debt then i'd say it's up to you. I have had insane experiences kids outside of college would dream of. At times it was like a goddamn movie. With 2 more years left I'm really excited. College is a dreamland for kids 18-23. After that you're too old (too mature) to really enjoy the partying aspects.

If you do decide to do it here's what I suggest:

Go engineering. If you don't know what kind go mechanical, you can do whatever you want with that degree (most things). Party your a$$ off, bang girls, run a business.

You come out with a 60-100k slowlane job (I had a mech-e friend start at 95k+bonus) and you can go from there. Additionally you can enter an industry where there is often a lot of opportunity. You can save some money and not live in poverty whilst planning/starting your venture.

In oil. There are some pretty rough barriers to entry. Also a lot of money that needs to be spent on a lot of things. I'd say there's an opportunity there. If not I'm save capital and look elsewhere.

My 2c

 

[chrischapman]

Demonizing college is just silly. It has it's benefits and certainly is a good path for a lot of people.

It is better to go to college than sit on your butt for four years doing nothing, provided the debt doesn't cripple your financial freedom too much.

It's all about opportunity cost.

If the alternative of you going to university is working dead end jobs and not educating yourself about life and business, then university could be a good idea.

On the other hand, if the alternative is a whole-souled attempt at starting a fastlane business that succeeds and learning the skills to make it work, then the opportunity cost is too high. Some people will be able to start building at 17 and make millions by their mid-twenties if they apply themselves correctly. In this case, university is absolutely useless and a time waster.

Suppose you learn about fastlane business principles, and start businesses and lose and fail by the age of 21/22. Perhaps the education in life and business through failure is more valuable than college. Perhaps you have wasted time and money going down the wrong road. It's entirely possible.

Nothing is guaranteed. This applies about as much to entrepreneurship as a college education. Most people with college degrees aren't employed in their discipline about which they studied, and work opportunities can be scarce.

All I can say, with which most here are going to agree, is that skipping college and dedicating yourself to learning about/building fastlane businesses has the highest potential payoff, especially if you want to hit millionaire status before you're 25 or 30.

College doesn't hold the same weight as it used to hold, and it costs more than ever.

It can be a difficult choice. But, if you are determined to execute your business plans and do so, probably, fastlane entrepreneurship is the way to go.

Also, you can always go to university later... are you just procrastinating about your late teens/early twenties or are you willing to try college out later?

 

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[Envision]

I feel like that was 7 pages of regurgitated shit.

DO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO

Its your life and YOU get to live it HOWEVER THE F*ck YOU WANT

 

[SteveO]

College is a dreamland for kids 18-23. After that you're too old (too mature) to really enjoy the partying aspects.

No. Some people can be old and still be immature....

 

[DeletedUser394]

I. CAN'T. DECIDE.

 

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[Jakeeck]

This thread can be summarized in 2 sentences.

You can either go to college, pick a useful major, and learn useful stuff pertaining to your business on the side.

OR

Not go to college and find some way to support yourself, whatever that way may be, while working on your business.

For me I think college helped me a lot. My maturity level going into college was so low its ridiculous. I even look back on things I did in college that are cringeworthy. College gave me time to mature, and I picked a major that gave me some useful information. I also got a lot of general knowledge and bases for skills such as writing, public speaking, and making sales pitches.

I admit it was hard to study for tests and do assignments that I knew were never going to help me, but I still did them. Not to mention all of my current friends are from college.

 

[Angus]

changed my view on college, i wouldn't personally go, even if it's free
4 years? that's A LOT of hours, just think about what you could accomplish in 4 years
if you're even only slightly driven, think about 4 years+a loan you would have used for college

No. Some people can be old and still be immature....

yes
everyday i visualize being at a party on my yacht, snorting coke off the a$$ of a stripper and then taking my off my submersible bugatti and circumnavigating the globe and then sometimes get drunk and then sometimes smoke weed i dont care who sees

 

[Jamesdoesmith]

as a young person actively involved in this debate. If you do go to a big 4 yr university to get your 2 yr associate basics that you can get for pennies on the dollar at your local community college. Be prepared for the slow lane. that can be crippling debt to get the exact qualification. If you go to get that last two years of your degree and party it up while also going to a community college for the first 2 yrs and saving that money you may not work your whole life.

I never had the opportunity to go to college or a big university. I do go to a community college. I didn't believe in loans and mommy and daddy are not about to finance that. So yes I am rather biased.

to convince me to go to a community college (not the fun nor cool choice) my mother laid out an excel spread sheet to show me what I would spend at CC and what it would cost for 4 yrs at a university. the difference was roughly 60k not including room and board, and if we did include it; the living standard was questionable.

my choice was obvious.

 

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[The-J]

I'm honestly tired of seeing pointless debates like this go on in the forum. The college debate for entrepreneurs is like debating religion. People have different perspectives based on their beliefs and experiences, but they refuse to accept there are other perspectives outside of their own.
Instead people take their highly opinionated statements and try to shove it down others throats to prove that they are right, when in fact there is no right and wrong. Going to college may be for you, it may not be for you. It may be the best decision of your life, it may be the worst decision of your life. (Hint: The individual determines if he/she will be successful, not a college degree or lack of it.)
If you think college is right for you, good, but you don't need to go out and argue with people when they disagree. And same vise versa. Eventually the argument almost always breaks down to personal attacks and people getting frustrated. If you chose to present your opinions, do it with the acceptance that other people may disagree and that is ok.
Presenting your viewpoint is fine, but don't present it if you feel the need to debate it to the death with anyone who questions it. Jack presented a valid point for people considering college to look at; you don't see him in here in this soup of useless discussion debating why he is right and you are wrong.

/board closed

Seriously. This is one of the oldest debates on this forum and it will NEVER be resolved.

If you're going to go to college, know what you're gonna be doing there and know the outcomes of going.

If you're NOT going to go to college... know what you're gonna be doing instead and know the outcomes of not going.

There is no right or wrong answer. People here LOVE to bash college and say it's a waste of time, but all you're doing is judging others based on a choice.

Sure, there are pros and cons to both. But first, lemme clear up some misconceptions that people have about college:

1) You can't work or start a business while in college. Bullshit: I did it, and the biz keeps me clothed, housed, and fed. College takes, if you want good grades, about 25 hours a week, with 15 of that being lectures, 5 of that being assignments, and the other 5 being studying. (Also C's get degrees, and a lot of people won't look at your GPA before looking at your skills)

2) You will go into debt by going to college. Also bullshit. If you're 18 and plan to go to college, start at a local community college and work your way through, then transfer up to a 4-year university. Smart students whose parents make less than $90k/year can go to high-ranked private institutions and most of them will give a large chunk of need-based aid.

3) Going to college will kill their Fastlane dreams. Also bullshit! There are entrepreneur clubs at most colleges, although don't be surprised when you're FAR more advanced than most of the other people there. That's okay, though: teach them and help them out.

4) This is less about college and more about jobs, and that is that getting a job is bad. Angus grass-fed BULLSHIT. Jobs suck, don't get me wrong. But getting a job might be the best thing you could ever do for your entrepreneurial career. It might END your entrepreneurial ambitions, in which case you weren't cut out to be one anyway (sorry). It also might teach you a little something about a business to get into. You might find a need that nobody else can see. You might learn some skills that you can build your own service business off of. You might meet people that will help you later on down the road.

I'm not advocating taking one path or another. But I'm kinda sick of this debate, from both sides.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I think someone could go over this thread, see all the argument s for both sides, and make an informed decision.

Yup. Gold baby.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

Not really trying to form a cohesive argument here, but some free association-

I had a family member who was really hard on one of his kids to go to college, simply because she is lazy, and financial success for a lazy person is likely best served by a college degree. The years have only made me think this is more and more outstanding advice.

I hated college, but I believe it was a great decision to see it through. (Though, how can you really know...right?)

If you read Dr. Stanley's books he has worked the data on college degrees and financial success I think better than anyone. He's worth reading, if for no other reason than he's an academic that will tell you grades are not the predictor of financial success most educators would have you believe. Millionaire Next Door is (mostly slowlane) millionaires, and Millionaire Mind is (mostly fastlane) decamillionaires. Read them and you'd notice academic achievement actually correlates more highly with decamillionaires than millionaires. He also found wealth correlates negatively with GPA if you pull the doctors and lawyers out of the sample set.

I've always said I hope my kid drops out of college because it's taking too much time away from his business, but I had way, WAY more free time in college than I do to start a business now, and I was a stEm major, who worked his way through school to pay for it. This is to say nothing of various obligations that also typically distract as one gets older- family, health takes more time to maintain, bullshit like houses etc etc, but there are plenty of older people who pull it off.

 

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[Brentnal]

I know I feel much more comfortable knowing that if my business plans don't work out I can walk into a solid job again. Do I want that? No. But it is assuring.

This could also be negative because you know you have got that safe net this could make you work less hard

 

[Brentnal]

I actually think this couldn't be answered, if you truly feel college isn't for you just don't do it. This society we live in is a illusion, it is made up by humanity, be who you want to be from inside and not from outside influences.
I think you will be much happier if you just do what you want to F*cking do, don't let anybody tell you what you can't or can do.

 

[Brentnal]

I feel like that was 7 pages of regurgitated shit.

DO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO

Its your life and YOU get to live it HOWEVER THE F*ck YOU WANT

 

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[FastlaneTiger]

Hmmm if I don't revive this thread then nobody would continue the debate, but in the other hand it became a GOLD THREAD.

Butterfly effect <3

 

[Greyson F]

I am more and more convinced that business degrees are worth almost nothing.

@Vigilante The problem that has been running through my head that keeps convincing me to go to college for business is the fact that I know nothing about the workings of a business. How could I start a business, or even plan a business without proper knowledge of how it all works? I mean, I've researched and read books and tried to put it all together, but I've learned theres a lot more to business than what I expected.

What's your take on this?

 

[Angus]

Hmmm if I don't revive this thread then nobody would continue the debate, but in the other hand it became a GOLD THREAD.

Butterfly effect <3

why boast about it if you're not benefiting from it

 

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[julien515]

Whats up with all the meta-level discussions here lately?

Of course college isnt for everyone. I agree with Jack though, some people overestimate themselves and think they can be successful without a formal education. I just dropped out of one of the most reputable universities in Europe. Maybe I'm on of those guys that overestimate themselves. I don't know, time will tell.

But what I know is, that all these problems that Jack mentioned ("took a shot, it failed, and all the memories you got out of 18-22 is your business failing, your parents yelling at you, you losing friends") are problems that started for me since I started university, not my business. I only went to university because I had the wish of a slowlane career in investment banking in mind (and was right on track to achieve that), but discovered during an internship that this is not what I want from live. The memories of the last 2 years of my life, since I started university, suck. I didn't have fun while in university and was depressed, for many reasons. When I dropped out I was happier than ever before because I felt free to do whatever I want with my life.

Somebody mentioned that you won't be successful if you are a quitter. You quit once, you will always quit. I personally think thats bullshit. Of course its better to finish what you started, but you can't let that be the only argument in your decision process. You can't finish something with the only reason being that you have to finish it or you are a loser who will also quit everything else. I debated with myself intensely over this and decided that I won't finish just for the sake of finishing.

I dropped out for a variety of reasons, but mainly because I was very unhappy with my life and needed a big change to get me back on track and I didn't see how a degree would benefit me in the real world (except for typical slowlane jobs a guy with a business degree will get). Somebody will say now that its better to build a business on the side while you are in college or are financially secured by a slowlane job. Maybe thats right. But I rather work some bullshit job on the weekend to keep myself afloat and be able to work on my business. For me its also about being fully immersed in your business, feeling to pressure to succeed. If I remember right MJ also felt this pressure when he moved to Phoenix with only a few hundred dollars, and I'm sure other successful entrepreneurs felt it. If you got your back against the wall you can only move forward and thats what I do now. Its hard and I'm struggling, but I'm way happier than I was when I was still in university.

Notice how I don't say "I know I will be successful"? Its because I don't know. I'm working hard on it, but I will never know if it works out. Maybe I will fail, maybe I should have finished my degree to have a better safety net, maybe I will have some success but hardly enough to have a lifestyle that I could have easily had with a standard slowlane job and maybe I will succeed fully. Whatever happens, I stand by my decision to drop out, and so should everyone, whether it is the decision to go to college, not go to college, drop out, or whatever.

I can understand

Whats up with all the meta-level discussions here lately?

Of course college isnt for everyone. I agree with Jack though, some people overestimate themselves and think they can be successful without a formal education. I just dropped out of one of the most reputable universities in Europe. Maybe I'm on of those guys that overestimate themselves. I don't know, time will tell.

But what I know is, that all these problems that Jack mentioned ("took a shot, it failed, and all the memories you got out of 18-22 is your business failing, your parents yelling at you, you losing friends") are problems that started for me since I started university, not my business. I only went to university because I had the wish of a slowlane career in investment banking in mind (and was right on track to achieve that), but discovered during an internship that this is not what I want from live. The memories of the last 2 years of my life, since I started university, suck. I didn't have fun while in university and was depressed, for many reasons. When I dropped out I was happier than ever before because I felt free to do whatever I want with my life.

Somebody mentioned that you won't be successful if you are a quitter. You quit once, you will always quit. I personally think thats bullshit. Of course its better to finish what you started, but you can't let that be the only argument in your decision process. You can't finish something with the only reason being that you have to finish it or you are a loser who will also quit everything else. I debated with myself intensely over this and decided that I won't finish just for the sake of finishing.

I dropped out for a variety of reasons, but mainly because I was very unhappy with my life and needed a big change to get me back on track and I didn't see how a degree would benefit me in the real world (except for typical slowlane jobs a guy with a business degree will get). Somebody will say now that its better to build a business on the side while you are in college or are financially secured by a slowlane job. Maybe thats right. But I rather work some bullshit job on the weekend to keep myself afloat and be able to work on my business. For me its also about being fully immersed in your business, feeling to pressure to succeed. If I remember right MJ also felt this pressure when he moved to Phoenix with only a few hundred dollars, and I'm sure other successful entrepreneurs felt it. If you got your back against the wall you can only move forward and thats what I do now. Its hard and I'm struggling, but I'm way happier than I was when I was still in university.

Notice how I don't say "I know I will be successful"? Its because I don't know. I'm working hard on it, but I will never know if it works out. Maybe I will fail, maybe I should have finished my degree to have a better safety net, maybe I will have some success but hardly enough to have a lifestyle that I could have easily had with a standard slowlane job and maybe I will succeed fully. Whatever happens, I stand by my decision to drop out, and so should everyone, whether it is the decision to go to college, not go to college, drop out, or whatever.

Investment banking can be a very rewarding career. I understand that you don't like the work but I doubt it will be any easier to make money in business than in I banking. There are people in that industry making high 6 figures some even 7 figures.... Millions per year. Having a job isn't always slow lane. You could work for an investment bank or hedgefund for a couple years save up 2 million bucks and be damn near retired. I understand that isn't what you want to do but I wouldn't shy away from it just b/c it isn't your own business.

 

[Vigilante]

@Vigilante The problem that has been running through my head that keeps convincing me to go to college for business is the fact that I know nothing about the workings of a business. How could I start a business, or even plan a business without proper knowledge of how it all works? I mean, I've researched and read books and tried to put it all together, but I've learned theres a lot more to business than what I expected.

What's your take on this?

My father used to own an executive recruiting agency. One day, CIO magazine called me regarding recruiting. What I told them is that we would rather recruit someone with real world experience than someone who read about it in a book. In many cases, business professors never ran a business, and teach on theory. At a minimum, if I were going to business school, I would want to make sure that the people that were teaching me... had actually built a business previously. Many times, retired business people then volunteer to teach at colleges and community colleges.

The best way to learn business is to work at a business. Become the best employee anyone ever had and you will learn everything you want to learn about business. Study what works, what doesn't, how accounting works, what makes people effective managers, leaders, and what makes a good employee. Study what doesn't work, and what you would do differently if you owned the business.

You can either read about it in a book, or experience it first hand.

 

[jake1720]

Looking bad I always enjoyed being around kids my age. Just don't get too caught up in the partying.

Life is pretty simple to be honest when it comes down to it.

Take care of your health. Produce Value. And do whatever you want.

 

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[Ezio]

https://twitter.com/Seth_Hamblin/status/537331221333045248

 

[botnickguy]

I'm at a community college right now for a Software Engineering undergraduate certificate and I'm perfectly content with that. I have skills that I can use to be successful in the Slowlane AND in the Fastlane. Guys, if you're going to go to college, go for a major that gives you bang for the buck inside and outside of the lanes. Don't waste your time taking an "easy major". I love college, because I am learning the same stuff in college that I'd be learning in the Fastlane by people who've devoted the bulk share of their time on earth teaching it. And minimize your debt. I paid 5k total for my education.

PS:
While you guys are posting about your plans to eventually find an investor to find a developer to make an app, I'm locking myself in a coffee shop every day on my "holiday break" making apps. Hit the gas or I'm going to overtake.

 

[Birdie]

College is jokes. Depressing waste of time. At 31, i've only kept two solid friends from that period - neither of whome I've seen in more than a year.

Most of the friends i "chill" with are (ex)work colleagues, random roommates, people at my MMA training facility and girls i bang - i.e going out and meeting girls in bars, clubs, the street, internet dating site (on a relentless basis) some broad i bumped into the airport a few weeks ago. etc. etc.

College was a depressing whole that i left me in a mountain of debt, scraping by barely enough to eat - going several days in a row without food cos i was LITERALLLY BROKE, partying way to hard on hard drugs i shouldn't have touched - and, in fact, hardly having any sex at ALL

A desperate lonely time for.

Did a "HIstory" degree - learnt NOTHING that i couldn't have gleaned from watching the Discovery challenge and reading books, which i do avidly anyway.

As for my writing talent which i exploit, yeah, part of that was honed with the sophisticated essay skills I develoiped at uni - but i did not need to be slaughtered for four years to do that.

Mass college education is a SCAM that feeds these overblown university systems with untold wealth

After several years of school, I have a very strong opinion about it.

School is what you make of it.

Sure, if you do nothing but socialize, play video games and take the easy courses where you can pass with an A with minimal effort, then you might as well just pick your dollar bills from your wallet and light them up on fire.

If, on the other hand, you go to school with a plan, it can be VERY beneficial. If you take the right classes that challenge you and give you skills for your business, then it will help you in the long run. I went through design school, where they teach you how to have an eye for good design... It was super stressful to get a double major in graphic design and business, but I don't regret all the work I put into it.

Because of my time in school, I can design good (not crappy) magazines, websites, posters, business cards, and I have a vast knowledge of what works and why. I could have probably learned some of it from perusing the web, but there is nothing quite like that academic structure.

Business school IS a joke. Everything they teach you is purely theoretical and useless. There are small fragments of useful information, which you can get from business books.

However, I would 't fully underestimate school just yet. It's like everything else in life, where the right motivation can really take you to great places.

 

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[Birdie]

I'm at a community college right now for a Software Engineering undergraduate certificate and I'm perfectly content with that. I have skills that I can use to be successful in the Slowlane AND in the Fastlane. Guys, if you're going to go to college, go for a major that gives you bang for the buck inside and outside of the lanes. Don't waste your time taking an "easy major". I love college, because I am learning the same stuff in college that I'd be learning in the Fastlane by people who've devoted the bulk share of their time on earth teaching it. And minimize your debt. I paid 5k total for my education.

PS:
While you guys are posting about your plans to eventually find an investor to find a developer to make an app, I'm locking myself in a coffee shop every day on my "holiday break" making apps. Hit the gas or I'm going to overtake.

Very well said.

I learned that I don't necessarily need to "know everything" and "do everything". However, when you actually outsource to other people, you realize that you need to do quality control, because most often it's crappy work.

It's hard to find capable people, and the ones that are talented will charge you more, obviously. Better to have a basic understanding and improve your skills and aid them instead of trusting your fate to a web developer for $7 an hour.

 

[botnickguy]

After several years of school, I have a very strong opinion about it.

School is what you make of it.

Sure, if you do nothing but socialize, play video games and take the easy courses where you can pass with an A with minimal effort, then you might as well just pick your dollar bills from your wallet and light them up on fire.

If, on the other hand, you go to school with a plan, it can be VERY beneficial. If you take the right classes that challenge you and give you skills for your business, then it will help you in the long run. I went through design school, where they teach you how to have an eye for good design... It was super stressful to get a double major in graphic design and business, but I don't regret all the work I put into it.

Because of my time in school, I can design good (not crappy) magazines, websites, posters, business cards, and I have a vast knowledge of what works and why. I could have probably learned some of it from perusing the web, but there is nothing quite like that academic structure.

Business school IS a joke. Everything they teach you is purely theoretical and useless. There are small fragments of useful information, which you can get from business books.

However, I would 't fully underestimate school just yet. It's like everything else in life, where the right motivation can really take you to great places.

BINGO. This. Every time. It's not the degree that makes the person, it's the person that makes the degree. Even in the slowlane, fastlane rules still apply. The slowlane is almost a smaller-scale fastlane for the masses. If you're not busting a$$, learning new things and learning the hidden rules, you're going to get passed over for every raise, every promotion, and every opportunity. A degree doesn't entitle you to anything. A (smart) work ethic does. A degree in a difficult major, from a prestigious school with high marks is how some choose to signal that kind of work ethic to employers. If you're going to get an easy major from just-give-us-your-money state and you're going to cruise by with D's, you're not doing anybody a favor other than the bank.

That's why you see so many successful entrepreneurs dropping out of the big league schools and graduating. It's because these are the same guys that were able to bust their asses consistently and always learn new things. You'll see plenty of people coming out of plenty of circumstances in the Fastlane but you ever notice that the biggest fortunes are made by the hardest-working, smartest, and most creative/spontaneous people?

If you dedicate your time in school to creating value for the market, you will not be sorry. If you spend it going through the motions while getting hammered and indebted, you will be sorry. Put in the hours to do all the valuable shit nobody else could be bothered to do and you'll be rewarded handsomely. That's how capitalism works.