I worked in Military Intelligence...

[Mike TG]

@throttleforward Yea I could see that now. haha

What is funny about the "girls" aspect of using this skill is that it is a natural byproduct of the process of retraining yourself to see the world differently. I don't have a picture of me on the forum but trust me, it ain't this face that got me my hot wife. Lol Beauty and the beast. This beast simply perfected his Verbal Judo.

Out of respect for the ladies on the forum, my field just happened to be extremely male dominated. One thing I always said when I was operating is that us guys went to school for 5 months just to learn what you ladies learned in the womb. On average, women are more empathetic. My field opened up to women a couple years ago and the ones that knew what they were doing were GREAT.

 

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[Stephanos83]

This a great thread. Rep transferred. I do have one question. Have you been able to transfer these skills to cold-emailing? If so, what dynamics do you have to overcome, and how do you do it? I understand that this would be the equivalent of online poker in contrast to live poker. It wouldn't be as effective as face-to-face or a phone call. Perhaps you know some psychological techniques for setting up a cold email to get the face-to-face or phone call where you can really start to work your magic.

Very insightful and stimulating information. Many thanks from a fellow veteran.

 

[Magik]

@MJ DeMarco - IMO, this has the makings of a gold thread.

 

[Magik]

@Mike TG, very good stuff. I am making connections all over the place. I definitely see how this relates to the dating world as well.

I have a question, but first, let me preface it. I'm a very logical driven guy, to the point where it hurts me in some areas. One problem I have is I lack patience. I get bored easily, and then my mind drifts, and I lose focus and have to refocus. I sometimes get bored right in the middle of conversations with people, whether it be sales, girls, or sometimes even friends and family. I also have found that, at times, I lack empathy. However, I do have more control over my emotions than most people.

How are you able to remain interested in conversation and not get bored? Being very logic driven yourself, do you find it difficult at times to have empathy towards people? If so, how do you improve it?

 

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[Determined2012]

Are you a Virgo Magik?

 

[Mike TG]

@Stephanos83, I'll answer your question in a second. I have to take a personal time out...

Everyone reading this thread, THANK YOU. I don't think you actually know what the response to this thread has done for me. Prior to this, I didn't really know what I had to add to the conversation. I wasn't sure of what value I could contribute. Knowing that I can help people understand the basics of human interaction and improve their business and their lives means everything to me.

My first child, Benjamin, was born 8 weeks ago. My little boy... Benjamin. I look at him, late at night, when my whole house is quiet, when he is sleeping in his crib and I realize that we all started there, as a small, helpless person. The only thing that has brought us to the point we are at today is the generosity of people, people who taught us and exposed us to new ideas. I think of the endless frontier of technology and progress that he will experience throughout his life and I know that it is not the wonders of innovation, but the people, the people who will be the most important part of his life. They will make or break his experience.

This earth is a cold, dark place without people like you. The connections we make warm our lives, as you have warmed mine. I truly appreciate each and every one of you who has participated in our shared discovery of human interaction in this thread.

STOP.

What are you feeling right now? What emotions did the previous sentences evoke? What images are floating through your mind?

I wrote this post to answer @Stephanos83's question. This is how to handle cold-emails or really any other written communication where you need to make an impact. Now, I don't claim to be a master of copy. I am much more of a student in that discipline. But I understand the fundamentals. Connect Emotionally. Most people don't want to do this because they don't want to admit that it works. And honestly, I probably didn't get everyone. There are a few who thought "What an emotional wuss" or "Grow a pair man" and that is just fine. This is a numbers game. You never bat a thousand. You don't need a thousand. You just need as many as you can get. And the sheople (sheep+people) of the world fall for this stuff hook, line, and sinker.

I want to break down the above paragraphs to give you my thought process behind writing this "hook" the way I did.

Set The Tone: So first I wanted to set the tone for what I was about to present. This is a subconscious setup. I just want to prime you for something different than what I've written before. So I call a "personal timeout" (what does that actually mean? Nothing.) to key your subconscious brain, your hind brain, that something different is coming, in order to make it more malleable for what I am about to attempt to do.

Open the emotion: I needed to prepare the subconscious mind for what I was about to write, so I gave emotion in order to get emotion. "...means everything to me." sets the bar for a big emotional exchange.

Paint the Picture: This is HUGE. I can't count the amount of times I have yelled this at a student of human intelligence in the Marine Corps. Paint the Picture means you have to give details, to verbally make your target imagine what you are saying. The devil is in the details. I brought a baby into the picture because that is a universal symbol. Even if you never want to have kids, you know what a baby looks like and what emotions that can evoke. Repetition of certain details ensure that your hind brain listens to what I am really saying. Specific details are as follows:

- "My little boy... Benjamin." --- I repeated child/boy and then the name twice each, because I wanted the picture of a baby in your brain, evoking tenderness and compassion.

- "I look at him, late at night, when my whole house is quiet, when he is sleeping in his crib..." --- You can picture late at night. You can picture a quiet house. You can picture a child in his crib. I have to take you into the story, to take you into the world I am creating.

- "...endless frontier of technology..." and "This earth is a cold, dark place..." --- These are very descriptive and have the proper adjectives to make you imagine and feel what I need you to feel. Endless possibilities in the first and cold desolation is the second.

- "The connections we make warm our lives, as you have warmed mine." --- This is an example of contrasts. There is no light without the dark. There is no warmth without cold. Contrasts are a great tool to push and then pull someone to different emotional extremes, filling the empty space in the middle with emotion.

Painting the picture is insanely important, whether written or spoken. If you have that persons motivation, the need behind the need, then you can paint the picture around this idea and effectively connect to the hind brain in order to affect a decision. I've used the "putting the daughter though college" idea before in this thread.

What does that really look like? What does that feel like? Where would it take place?

It depends on what college the persons daughter attends. It depends on what that place looks like. These are the details you need to capture and then paint in order to make an emotional connection.

"Imagine your daughter (insert daughters name), walking across that wooden stage to shake the dean's hand. As he nods in approval, you see the smile on her face, more than just happiness, but a smile of accomplishment as she becomes her own person. Such an amazing feeling to see our children go on to accomplish their dreams, isn't it?"

Context: An emotional connection trumps all, whether verbal or written. This sets the stage for the follow up. Write something with these principles and that person will remember you. Obviously the context of what I wrote had to do with this forum and what has been discussed prior to this post. But even in an absolute cold context, this works. I recently gave money to Wikipedia because the founder wrote a letter outlining his vision about what Wikipedia stood for and what he felt it meant for future generations. This hit me in the emotional crotch and I gave money. I felt the emotion from his words and I took action. Was he being honest? Was I in the above paragraphs? In the end, it doesn't matter. The action was taken.

So @Stephanos83, I hoped this helped. I love that I can help people but its especially great to know that a few of my brothers in arms are on the forums. What service were you in?

 

[BlokeInProgress]

@Mike TG - great stuff here! Rep transferred.

 

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[GravyBoat]

The theme in this thread really resonated with me and I wanted to thank you for sharing with us (max rep transferred!). Just quickly going down the list of things I think about/pertain to my everyday life, this can be applied to literally ALL aspects of life (as you said, it will change you). Craigslist flipping is something I consider myself very good at, and through the months and years I've noticed how you can "steer" conversations your way, steer sales, invoke emotions, etc, even in something as simple as a Craigslist sale.

Example: I had a guy contact me about buying an iPad or something, in using tactics like this, I found out that it was for his wife as an anniversary present. This seems far-fetched, but I actually got him to pay MORE for the item because I knew this information (something I NEVER would have known had I not attempted to DIG DEEPER).

I am starting a door-to-door sales job in about 2 weeks, and am SUPER EXCITED to apply this when selling. At first when we were getting trained, I felt that some of the stuff they asked was too "intrusive", or dug TOO deep, and @codo3500 mentioned, I felt that it was a little awkward. Every day, through my interactions and analysis of conversations, I realize that it's NOT AS AWKWARD as I thought. Sure you'll still have some people that feel that way, but as you said, too early or too late can make or break the convo. In the end, the numbers game will WORK to your favor, so long as you continue to play!

Just wanted to reiterate how this can LITERALLY be applied to any person, any conversation, any part of life. Just having the general knowledge of the subject puts you in a league ahead of superficial "talking" when conversing with people.

I'm sure I'll think of questions soon here as well.

THANKS AGAIN!!

Gravy

 

[Stephanos83]

@Stephanos83, I'll answer your question in a second. I have to take a personal time out...

Everyone reading this thread, THANK YOU. I don't think you actually know what the response to this thread has done for me. Prior to this, I didn't really know what I had to add to the conversation. I wasn't sure of what value I could contribute. Knowing that I can help people understand the basics of human interaction and improve their business and their lives means everything to me.

My first child, Benjamin, was born 8 weeks ago. My little boy... Benjamin. I look at him, late at night, when my whole house is quiet, when he is sleeping in his crib and I realize that we all started there, as a small, helpless person. The only thing that has brought us to the point we are at today is the generosity of people, people who taught us and exposed us to new ideas. I think of the endless frontier of technology and progress that he will experience throughout his life and I know that it is not the wonders of innovation, but the people, the people who will be the most important part of his life. They will make or break his experience.

This earth is a cold, dark place without people like you. The connections we make warm our lives, as you have warmed mine. I truly appreciate each and every one of you who has participated in our shared discovery of human interaction in this thread.

STOP.

What are you feeling right now? What emotions did the previous sentences evoke? What images are floating through your mind?

I wrote this post to answer @Stephanos83's question. This is how to handle cold-emails or really any other written communication where you need to make an impact. Now, I don't claim to be a master of copy. I am much more of a student in that discipline. But I understand the fundamentals. Connect Emotionally. Most people don't want to do this because they don't want to admit that it works. And honestly, I probably didn't get everyone. There are a few who thought "What an emotional wuss" or "Grow a pair man" and that is just fine. This is a numbers game. You never bat a thousand. You don't need a thousand. You just need as many as you can get. And the sheople (sheep+people) of the world fall for this stuff hook, line, and sinker.

I want to break down the above paragraphs to give you my thought process behind writing this "hook" the way I did.

Set The Tone: So first I wanted to set the tone for what I was about to present. This is a subconscious setup. I just want to prime you for something different than what I've written before. So I call a "personal timeout" (what does that actually mean? Nothing.) to key your subconscious brain, your hind brain, that something different is coming, in order to make it more malleable for what I am about to attempt to do.

Open the emotion: I needed to prepare the subconscious mind for what I was about to write, so I gave emotion in order to get emotion. "...means everything to me." sets the bar for a big emotional exchange.

Paint the Picture: This is HUGE. I can't count the amount of times I have yelled this at a student of human intelligence in the Marine Corps. Paint the Picture means you have to give details, to verbally make your target imagine what you are saying. The devil is in the details. I brought a baby into the picture because that is a universal symbol. Even if you never want to have kids, you know what a baby looks like and what emotions that can evoke. Repetition of certain details ensure that your hind brain listens to what I am really saying. Specific details are as follows:

- "My little boy... Benjamin." --- I repeated child/boy and then the name twice each, because I wanted the picture of a baby in your brain, evoking tenderness and compassion.

- "I look at him, late at night, when my whole house is quiet, when he is sleeping in his crib..." --- You can picture late at night. You can picture a quiet house. You can picture a child in his crib. I have to take you into the story, to take you into the world I am creating.

- "...endless frontier of technology..." and "This earth is a cold, dark place..." --- These are very descriptive and have the proper adjectives to make you imagine and feel what I need you to feel. Endless possibilities in the first and cold desolation is the second.

- "The connections we make warm our lives, as you have warmed mine." --- This is an example of contrasts. There is no light without the dark. There is no warmth without cold. Contrasts are a great tool to push and then pull someone to different emotional extremes, filling the empty space in the middle with emotion.

Painting the picture is insanely important, whether written or spoken. If you have that persons motivation, the need behind the need, then you can paint the picture around this idea and effectively connect to the hind brain in order to affect a decision. I've used the "putting the daughter though college" idea before in this thread.

What does that really look like? What does that feel like? Where would it take place?

It depends on what college the persons daughter attends. It depends on what that place looks like. These are the details you need to capture and then paint in order to make an emotional connection.

"Imagine your daughter (insert daughters name), walking across that wooden stage to shake the dean's hand. As he nods in approval, you see the smile on her face, more than just happiness, but a smile of accomplishment as she becomes her own person. Such an amazing feeling to see our children go on to accomplish their dreams, isn't it?"

Context: An emotional connection trumps all, whether verbal or written. This sets the stage for the follow up. Write something with these principles and that person will remember you. Obviously the context of what I wrote had to do with this forum and what has been discussed prior to this post. But even in an absolute cold context, this works. I recently gave money to Wikipedia because the founder wrote a letter outlining his vision about what Wikipedia stood for and what he felt it meant for future generations. This hit me in the emotional crotch and I gave money. I felt the emotion from his words and I took action. Was he being honest? Was I in the above paragraphs? In the end, it doesn't matter. The action was taken.

So @Stephanos83, I hoped this helped. I love that I can help people but its especially great to know that a few of my brothers in arms are on the forums. What service were you in?

I was in the Navy. There's something of a rivalry there with Marines (albeit artificial). I never played into that nonsense though. Branch never mattered to me. We're all on the same team.

I really appreciate the detailed post. I believe you answered my question. The only way to know for sure is to get up to bat, and test it out.

 

[Daniel A]

@Mike TG I know it's not fastlane, but it could be a great experience, an opportunity to learn many useful things, and develop as a person. I've had a strong interest in the military in general since I was young (books, the Military Channel, movies, etc.), and during high school I was convinced I would join, but didn't. The older guys I know who are in the military enjoy passing on some of what they learned and it's always very interesting (like how to camouflage myself from facial recognition cameras, physical exercise methods, etc.).

I think most people are like that. We like to help, teach, and pass things on to other people. For example, with MJ writing his book and starting this forum, which has a financial interest no doubt, but I bet a bigger motive was to help, connect with, and teach like-minded people. A question that I heard earlier was..."what is profit?" and "what is value?". It was to imply that money is not really it...there is more to it...like emotional, mental, etc. satisfaction, relationships, maybe even direct exchange of help for help without money being involved, etc.

Wow, that was an awesome example and getting information can be very powerful. "War is 90% information." - Napoleon Bonaparte

You're welcome on mentioning the book, and speaking of that book (I haven't finished it yet but so far it's been 'eye-opening'). One thing I remember because they constantly stressed it was the importance of gathering information and that in a 'secure system' the weakest point or most vulnerable, is the point where a human is involved. Do you agree with that?

I get a sense you did a little research on me for this one, hahaha. That phone number method is pretty cool. I'll have to try it man Was there a good rate of replies/answers to texts/calls after getting their information too? I actually heard about the book I mentioned via a dating/lifestyle coach. By the way he actually did test what he learned from it by deceiving some what should have been, harder targets, to elicit information from them.

If I remember right he posed as a female working in the data security space and created a vague/fake LinkedIn profile in order to join a group of people who actually do work in that space. He was able to join the group of data security specialists very easily, they approved his request. Since he was a 'female' now he got the guys' attention and interest then started messaging them personally. Through that I believe he was able to get information about what they were working on, etc. I think he told them after and got connected with the guys enough to speak at a data protection event, so no real harm done. Human vulnerability though man...very sneaky, sneaky.

I do need to get my own familiar method/system down. That's a great way of doing it and I agree, they most likely would leave with the perception of you being helpful/valuable to them. Plus you get their contact information. Nice!

Thank you for sharing what you learned through your training, I'll be going over all the answers here! Well I think this was very good reciprocation for MJ and TFF. Thank you again

PS: Rep $ Transfered

 

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[Mike TG]

Every day, through my interactions and analysis of conversations, I realize that it's NOT AS AWKWARD as I thought.

@GravyBoat, this is so KEY. We get stuck inside our heads so much that it hurts us in the pursuit of perfecting this art. A human intelligence agents best asset is always his own confidence. Fake it until you make it.

One of my favorite quotes.

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” - Henry Ford

Example: I had a guy contact me about buying an iPad or something, in using tactics like this, I found out that it was for his wife as an anniversary present. This seems far-fetched, but I actually got him to pay MORE for the item because I knew this information (something I NEVER would have known had I not attempted to DIG DEEPER).

This is a great example of finding and using motivations. A guy who has a casual interest in getting an iPad has much different motivations than a guy who is buying it as a present for his wife on their anniversary. Outside of the buyer's perspective bubble, are the situations that different? No, he should try to get the best price either way. But in practice, it is very different. Finding and exploiting his motivation gets him thinking emotionally, about his wife and anniversary, not about the price. Emotion trumps logic, logic trumps emotion.

 

[KLaw]

@Mike TG you write some great and very long a$$ posts (thats a compliment not a slam). Ive read some and skimmed over your posts and plan to really dig into these this weekend. This is truly fascinating stuff for me and I cant stress how much I appreciate you sharing it with us. Simple question - looking for a simple answer (if that is possible):
What / how do we become better listeners? Some of your earlier posts indicate practice, practice, practice. My problem is I just dont have the patience. You know what I mean? Is there a mind set I need to adopt? If so, how? Again, thanks a million for sharing. rep+

 

[Determined2012]

Nice thread. I think I would do very well in this line of work. I have some of the traits and mannerisms already that you spoke about teaching the Marines how to cultivate.

Rep+++

 

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[KLaw]

Nice thread. I think I would do very well in this line of work. I have some of the traits and mannerisms already that you spoke about teaching the Marines how to cultivate.

Rep+++

Be more specific - if you dont mind. What skills do you think you got?

 

[Determined2012]

What skills do you think you got?

All the ones I think you DON'T got!!! LOL

I just have a way with people- with persuasion, and courting them, directing them, and them being unaware, just the interaction back and forth- the dance of it all. I would have to go through and pull out specific instances- but just saying overall the personality that he writes about- in regard to himself and what he teaches- I have that in me.

I have posted more about this before in the How do I talk to a stranger thread. I can easily and quickly disarm a person and gain their trust and get what I need/want from them.

I am very charismatic and charming during face to face interactions. I can effortlessly incite heavy emotions in a person.

I am not concise at ALL when writing (way took wordy, and I know this about myself), but verbally- I am an extremely effective communicator.

 

[KLaw]

All the ones I think you DON'T got!!! LOL

I just have a way with people- with persuasion, and courting them, directing them, and them being unaware, just the interaction back and forth- the dance of it all. I would have to go through and pull out specific instances- but just saying overall the personality that he writes about- in regard to himself and what he teaches- I have that in me.

I have posted more about this before in the How do I talk to a stranger thread. I can easily and quickly disarm a person and gain their trust and get what I need/want from them.

I am very charismatic and charming during face to face interactions. I can effortlessly incite heavy emotions in a person.

I wasnt challenging you or questioning you.
Just curious. Got any specific cases? Now, Im challenging you. lol!

 

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[Determined2012]

Got any specific cases?

I have many instances of it...Most I'd rather not post about on the forum! I don't always use my powers for good!

I didn't take it as you calling me out- so no need to clarify!

 

[Mike TG]

just the interaction back and forth- the dance of it all.

That is a great way to put it. Human interaction is very much like a dance. Studying the technique is vital, but there is nothing like getting on the floor to learn. Once you get good, you can just feel the flow of the conversation and know what the other person needs to hear. It is like a sixth sense. At a certain level, most people become fairly easy and straight forward. It is like people are just walking around with signs around their necks telling you what they need to hear. You have to keep challenging yourself to break past the plateaus.

 

[TedM]

Mike,

Prior to this, I didn't really know what I had to add to the conversation. I wasn't sure of what value I could contribute.

We're all starting businesses here so the ability to draw another into our story is really what we are all about.

Let me ask you for some coaching on a real-life situation I am faced with right now. (Brief preface - I am launching a high end coffee-of-the-month subscription business).

I have made contact with the retailer of my dreams, a smallish catalog company (~$25MM revenue) that sells mostly non-food items to my target audience (they do sell one expensive kind of chocolate).

I sent them samples of my coffee, followed up and got a positive reply from a senior person, that "A European roast would work well with our brand. We’ll be in touch next week." More follow up attempts over ensuing weeks, and finally got her on the phone last week, and she said that my product is "[owner's name]'s baby".

Now I need to call him and see how to proceed.

I'm in Israel and he's in the US. I'm happy to invest the time and money to visit him and close an agreement, but I need to clarify some things first, in no particular order:
1. What value does carrying my coffee add for him?
2. I sell on a subscription basis only. What is his thinking about that?
3. Price... he's got a ton of experience on this.... I really want to know what he thinks will work and what kind of margins he expects.
4. I would dearly like to know, based on his chocolate sales data, what he would estimate for the coffee..
There are a lot of commercial options I need to consider and prepare answers for (direct shipping, shipping through his methods)

I'm very comfortable on the phone, but I'm really unsure of how to open the conversation, after the very initial "Hey, glad for the opportunity to speak with you...."
do I say -

• ".. about my coffee. What is your vision for adding it to your catalog?"
• "I love your catalog and admire your brand. How can we move forward"

Those openings are more about me. I'm not sure how to engage him.

What would you advise?

(BTW, my firstborn is also a Benjamin & I'm also a veteran although from a different army ;-) )

 

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[Mike TG]

@TedM, First off, a veteran is a veteran. And Benjamin is a great name! haha Thank you for your service, no matter when and where.

For everyone else, I know I have some pending questions to get to and I usually try to take them in the order I get them but I wanted to get to @TedM's question first because he has some action to take in the near future.

I love your coffee site and business. I can't tell you how many days my wife and I are sitting on our back porch drinking coffee, wishing we were at a Parisian cafe. Truly, it's more than just coffee. It's an experience and a trip down memory lane for those who have traveled abroad. So thanks for doing the work to make this available!

Opening the conversation is the most important part, in my opinion. It sets the tone and putting it in the right context will work wonders when you get into the bulk of the conversation. I don't even know who the business owner is so I'm just going to throw out some possible scenarios to try and help. The following will have very little to do with the business end of the phone call. You know your numbers, your price points, etc. My advice is about the other half of the conversation. Getting this guy to see value in YOU FIRST, then in your product.

1. Research - I am sure you have already done this on his company based on your specific knowledge about his product and brand. But who is he? Anything you can read on him (social media, news articles, linkedin profile, etc.) will give you a better idea of who you are talking to. And try to look a little deeper than just what he has accomplished. DO NOT be afraid to make an assessment about who he is as a person. You may be completely off the mark but at least you have a starting point. A starting point will allow you to quickly adjust if you can see that you either drew the wrong impression or that he has a different persona personally than the one he puts forward publicly.

Example: If during your research you see that he is involved in high society (galas, charity events, etc.) than you can make an assessment that he may be expecting to get to know you as a person first, to connect with you as a person before he commits to connecting to you as a business. If you see pictures of him doing a keg stand at a NASCAR race, you can assess that he may have a casual manner and so your opening would be more friendly than formal, like you are greeting him at a neighborhood barbecue.

2. Planning - Once you have done the research, approach your thoughts on this conversation like you would when split testing a website for conversion. You have to start somewhere. You must have an opening "salvo", so to speak. We were made to do this with all of our human intelligence operations. You have to make a plan first. More than half the time, the plan is modified on the fly. And that is completely fine. What the planning does is to force you to do your due diligence on who this man is a person so that you can then tailor your approach to what will be most effective with this individual. Once you have some "data" (i.e. it is going really well and your initial assessments were spot on or it's not and you have to go to plan B, from high society to NASCAR) from the first 1 or 2 minutes of conversation, you can adjust to try and get a higher return from the following minutes of the conversation. This may seem like a lot of thought to put into the first half of one conversation and really, it is a lot of work. This, however, is the difference between those who PLAN for a conversation to go well and those who HOPE a conversation goes well. Hope is not an action plan.

3. Practice - When I was a student at the Marine Corps intelligence school, the first day of class our lead instructor came in to introduce himself. He spoke to us about the rules, what was expected, etc. but the thing that really stood out in my mind was what he said about the curriculum. He said, "Gents, we are not really going to be teaching you anything new here. You have been having conversations your entire life. The only thing we are going to teach you is to how to have a conversation that has a purpose, a conversation that gets you what you need." That has stuck with me. The difference between the muddled conversations that random people have and the conversations I have is that I have a laser focus and the knowledge of how to get to that purpose.

So practice what you are going to say out loud, in your car, in the shower, wherever. I do not mean to memorize a script. That is about the worst way to try and have a natural sounding conversation. Instead, the practice will allow you to feel your way through what you are going to say and give you little bits to use when and if you need them during the conversation. Think about practice like this as building the tools that you are going to take into into the conversation. You don't know what the job (conversation) will entail, but the more tools in your tool bag, the better prepared you will be.


I am going to make an assessment about you. Based on your work background, the way you write, and even your picture (the style of the beard and haircut mainly) I would assess that you are not the kind of guy who makes senseless small talk. You like to dig into the deeper parts of a subject when discussing it, to make progress deeper, not wider. If we sat for an hour with a cup of coffee, I could see us talking deeply about 2 or 3 topics, but not widely about 9 or 12 topics. You can chit-chat if you need to, but prefer to be learning, teaching, or debating in a conversation. For you, the conversation is about developing an idea and developing a mind.

Now I may be completely off, but that is the approach with which I would start. At least I have a first plan of attack. If you turn out to be chatty beyond belief, no big deal. I can quickly change my tone and rate of speech in order to match yours and jump topics until your heart is content.

Some people are going to read this and think, "I am the way I am. I'm not changing it for anyone, let alone one conversation." That's fine. It's your success, not mine. I would say think about it this way instead. This catalog owner's time is valuable as evidenced by your efforts to get a hold of him. If it is valuable and he wants to spend half that time getting to know YOU (where you travel, what got you into the coffee business, etc.) because he believes this information is necessary for him, then go with it. If he wants to take this time to go deep and have an in depth conversation about pricing strategy and sales volume, then do that.

This will also give you more time to assess for his motivations. Your product is already his "baby". So you know he is interested. Why? What is his biggest problem? Does he want to feature you on the front cover so more people will pick it up? Does he think your product will add a mint to his bottom line? As you talk and get a feel for him, you will be able to assess this or gently introduce these topics so that he will start tipping his hand.

That was the long answer. The short answer, in my opinion, is to just start off with a friendly greeting and a gentle compliment on his catalog. Think professional admiration. By listening to his answer, you can read volumes into him as a person. If he gives you a solid two minutes on the vision for the catalog, you've got an ego and a man obsessed. If he shrugs it off with an almost embarrassed humility, different story. Either way is good. Like a split test, it is all about the data.

Quick Edit: In reference to your specific questions you want to ask him, I think you will find by doing the above, those questions will be no problem for you to ask. Once the relationship is established (and this can happen in conversation number 1), saying "I would love to get your thoughts on..." will get you whatever you need to know.

 

[Magik]

Are you a Virgo Magik?

No, I'm a pisces. I have no idea what it means to be a pisces or virgo or any of the other signs. I've never put much stock in that, although I'm not ruling out that there's something to it. When it comes to personality and behavior, I'm a Myers Briggs guy. Learning that I'm an INTJ and understanding what that means has done more for me than anything.

 

[workingtitle]

Thank you for this thread. You're providing incredible value.

 

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[ExecutionisKing]

Mike, thank you for your service.
This thread has some killer info in it! I’ve been taking notes…

1. It immediately builds rapport - He thinks more highly of you because you are different. The majority of the population is thinking about what they want to say next while you are talking

This is good. I do this a lot personally, and I definitely feel like it’s one of the reasons that I’m an excellent conversationalist (imo).

What you learn by listening to someone talk is often the key to their inner motivation, if you are listening for it.

This is so helpful in finding consumer needs. I’ve always used my insights of people to make the conversation interesting. This is a shove in the right direction for me. Namely that I need to start working from a producer mindset and start cataloguing consumer pains due to needs.
From this new angle. I can see that some of the needs may be caused by goals of unfulfilled motivations…

-If you are not reading between the lines, you're losing.
-Information is not intelligence until you analyze it.
-I would say that motivations are probably the SINGULAR most important factor when dealing with people.
-Listening and assessing motivations (the need behind the need) will make you a potent force when persuading people to work with you, buy from you, etc.
-Emotion trumps logic, logic trumps emotion.
-It is a lot of work. This, however, is the difference between those who PLAN for a conversation to go well and those who HOPE a conversation goes well.

These, along with the last one quoted are my favorite of your "one liners," so far. Not sure how many I missed though...

Action Item: In the next conversation you have, ask a minimum of FIVE follow-up questions in reference to what that person is saying to you.

I like this challenge. I’ll get into this more in a bit, but in general, at what point do people start feeling like you’re prying/really going after the hook, rather than letting them make their own decision? Or if it’s a good question, based on what they just said, maybe they don’t, since everyone likes to talk about themselves…

Regarding the widget example…

"You know Mr. Customer, Widget X ……
"I love Widget X as a product …

Here’s where I’m confused. I could be crazy, or looking at this from the wrong angle.
For me, as soon as a salesman or anyone trying to get me involved in something appeals to my emotions, I get, well… irritated?
I just don’t think I’m very susceptible to being sold too based on any “emotions” they try to trigger in me(at least not as the primary reason in anything I've bought yet). I think it actually shuts me down (just thought of this, maybe the emotional appeal is so strong I can’t mentally take it, and shut down? Highly doubt it, but it was a thought, and I caught it before it escaped...)

FACTS TELL, EMOTIONS SELL.

Again, this is where I find myself to be the opposite. For the most part, emotions don’t sell me, at all. They’re like a turn-off, where too much of them makes me feel like the product can’t sell me on itself, and must resort to bandwagon and happiness appeals.
The facts of what a product can do are what make me interested in it (don't remember any emotions felt over facts, it's either yes or no). I feel like “what the product can do for me” already helped lead me there, so making me think about it more doesn’t make me somehow emotionally attached, and eager to get it…

If I haven’t heard of it before and was being pitched on it, I honestly think I really only care about the facts, and make my own usefulness equation from that, and then take time to compare it to similar things. I don’t need a line about what great family memories I can build with it, or anything like that.

I’m trying to say that I think I evaluate pretty strictly on facts. Is that plausible? Are you hearing anything deeper behind everything that I’m not seeing?

Ex. Clothing store (long time ago). Tried jeans on, came out to look in the mirror (but didn’t think they were really my fit preference). Sales girl/shelf arranger (pops out of nowhere) and goes, “Wow, you look great in those!”

Now I was a little younger. I remember her as being pretty attractive, and ~5 years older than me. At that age (15?), I could’ve fallen for it. But instead I looked and thought, “These don't feel comfortable, or look "cooler" to me, I’ll try on the other pair” and then, “I wonder if she’s paid to say that?”
Tried the other pair on. Came out, liked them. She told me she thought I looked better in the first pair (she was actually really sweet, and wasn’t being nosey, just said it in an offhand/energetic way).

I knew I wasn’t going to get them, strictly because I liked the fit of the latter pair (neither pair looked much different to me anyways), and we had some playful banter over it, but I waited till she moved somewhere else to put them back (didn’t want to hurt her feelings, though I really doubt she cared that much).
Is clothing fitment emotional or fact-based? I think both? I felt it was simple. I liked the fit of the 2nd pair better. There was a WAY stronger emotional appeal for the first, but I just dismissed that, because what I felt were “the facts” made my decision clear, and was glad afterwards, because I realized I'd probably never see her again anyhow.
I remember that so strongly because I think that’s when I became aware of emotional pulls in sales, and began to tune them out. (Not because the emotional appeal was so strong that I couldn’t forget it. ).

Exactly. Emotion trumps logic, logic trumps emotion.

Could you explain this? Do you mean that the emotion invoked (in sales) trumps the logic (of price limit you’re blowing, the practicality of a product, etc) and then logic (of the emotions activated and now “controlling” you) trumps emotion (of the logic “crying out,” telling you it’s not the right decision)?

Sorry for the long post. I do talk a lot, but fast. That would've taken like 30 seconds tops...

 

[Silverhawk851]

I’m trying to say that I think I evaluate pretty strictly on facts.

Could you explain this? Do you mean that the emotion invoked (in sales) trumps the logic (of price limit you’re blowing, the practicality of a product, etc) and then logic (of the emotions activated and now “controlling” you) trumps emotion (of the logic “crying out,” telling you it’s not the right decision)?

See your missing the true meaning of what an emotion really is. it's a Feeling. In the shop, you associated did not associate the feelings of cool-ness with wearing those jeans. Your emotions are part of you, this is how you are wired, you cannot change it.

Human behavior is based on only two primal motivators, the desire to Gain Pleasure, or to Avoid Pain. Both are emotional. To deny that is to say one isn't human.

You know your friends? Why are they your friends? And you would walk by someone of the exact same gender, age, interest, hair color, eye color, economic status, sense of style, same shoes, and even the same hair cut without giving a second glance?

Logically, you should be friends with this other person too, or possibly be friends with someone better. Why aren't you friends with this stranger?

It's because you have associated certain strong feelings to your friends, certain emotions, that you have not established with the other person.

Lol As for the girl, I think your confusing sexual instinct with human behavior, we have other dimensions also (although it might not seem like that alot of times haha)

P.s. How old are you?

 

[TedM]

Mike,
I'm deeply honored you took the time to write all that. I've read through it a few times already. It's perfectly helpful

But who is he?

This was interesting, because - in fact, he doesn't show up anywhere.... in any searches... I found one reference to him - that he in an accountant by training and in his previous positions.

I never would have paid attention to this - now, it definitely helps me build a persona for him.

That was the long answer. The short answer, in my opinion, is to just start off with a friendly greeting and a gentle compliment on his catalog. Think professional admiration. By listening to his answer, you can read volumes into him as a person.

"I would love to get your thoughts on..." will get you whatever you need to know

Mike - all I can say is thank you. This is a huge help. I'll let you know how the call turns out.

 

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[ExecutionisKing]

See your missing the true meaning of what an emotion really is. it's a Feeling. In the shop, you associated did not associate the feelings of cool-ness with wearing those jeans. Your emotions are part of you, this is how you are wired, you cannot change it.

Which one? Assuming you mean I did associate a feeling of cool-ness with the jeans, I actually didn't notice any difference aesthetically between the two, except for the fit. That may have gotten buried in the rest of everything...

I knew I wasn’t going to get them, strictly because I liked the fit of the latter pair (neither pair looked much different to me anyways

Human behavior is based on only two primal motivators, the desire to Gain Pleasure, or to Avoid Pain. Both are emotional. To deny that is to say one isn't human.

You know your friends? Why are they your friends? And you would walk by someone of the exact same gender, age, interest, hair color, eye color, economic status, sense of style, same shoes, and even the same hair cut without giving a second glance?
Logically, you should be friends with this other person too, or possibly be friends with someone better. Why aren't you friends with this stranger?

Not to get on a tangent, but statements like that always confuse me, since I find a different answer everywhere I look. This Forbe's article says http://www.forbes.com/sites/christinecomaford/2013/03/13/the-3-things-all-humans-crave-and-how-to-motivate-anyone-anytime-anywhere/ it's safety, belonging, mattering. Then this http://www.subliminalmessagecds.com/html/site/basic_instincts.htm says the two motivators are desire and fear.
Not trying to annoy you with senseless questions, but you obviously have some knowledge of this, so can you clarify that for me..?

Besides that, I understand what you're saying. From your following example though, I think you thought I was saying I don't act on any emotions (your example shows otherwise), which is definitely not true and isn't how I meant it to sound. I mean that I really don't think I draw on them strongly in purchases of any sort. I could definitely be misunderstanding something though.

Lol As for the girl, I think you're confusing sexual instinct with human behavior, we have other dimensions also (although it might not seem like that a lot of times haha)
P.s. How old are you?

Quite possible. I won't go too far on this, but isn't sexual behavior a human instinct?
I'm a college sophomore; 20.
Shameless (well, not completely) plug to my recent intro thread...
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...dvice-and-insights-greatly-appreciated.51528/

 

[Mike TG]

I was looking up Jordan Belfort from the new Wolf of Wall Street movie and I came across this gem. Although he used his abilities to break the law (spent 4 years in the federal pen and still owes over 100 million in restitution) the lesson is still golden.

This is from an article that talks about a scene from the movie, where Belfort asks a room full of salespeople to sell him a pen. Funny enough, when I was being interviewed for acceptance into the military intelligence field, I got asked to do this same thing.

How to Sell a Pen

“It’s sort of a trick question. Because when you say to a salesman, ‘Sell me this pen,’ you might find some will say to you, ‘This is a great pen, this pen writes upside down. It defies gravity, this pen is the cheapest pen on earth, this pen will never run out.’ They’ll say all the reasons the pen is good, they’ll start telling you the features, and the better ones will give you the benefits too. But that’s not what the real answer is.

“The real answer is, before I’m even going to sell a pen to anybody, I need to know about the person, I want to know what their needs are, what kind of pens do they use, do they use a pen? How often do they use a pen? Do they like to use a pen formally, to sign things, or use it in their everyday life? The first idea is that when you say ‘Sell me this pen,’ I want to hear [the salesman] ask me a question. ‘So tell me, how long have you been in the market for a pen?’ I want them to turn it around on me and start asking me questions to identify my needs, what I’m looking for. And if you do that, people don’t know what to do. Next thing, he is answering, and now I’m controlling the conversation, finding out exactly what he needs.

“Once I have that, I say, ‘You know, Bill, based on what you’ve just said to me, the pen I have here is the perfect fit. Let me tell you what it’s about…’ Then you can tell them about what you have, because you’re filling a need. Most average or newbie salespeople think that they’re supposed to sell you the pen, when a really seasoned salesperson will actually turn it into a qualifying session to find out what you need. That’s the truth of it. It’s like trying to sell someone a house and you don’t know if they’re in the market for a house, what kind of house they want, how many kids – so how can you sell someone a house? That’s the point.”


It's all about the needs...

 

[Nur]

I was looking up Jordan Belfort from the new Wolf of Wall Street movie and I came across this gem. Although he used his abilities to break the law (spent 4 years in the federal pen and still owes over 100 million in restitution) the lesson is still golden.

This is from an article that talks about a scene from the movie, where Belfort asks a room full of salespeople to sell him a pen. Funny enough, when I was being interviewed for acceptance into the military intelligence field, I got asked to do this same thing.

How to Sell a Pen
“It’s sort of a trick question. Because when you say to a salesman, ‘Sell me this pen,’ you might find some will say to you, ‘This is a great pen, this pen writes upside down. It defies gravity, this pen is the cheapest pen on earth, this pen will never run out.’ They’ll say all the reasons the pen is good, they’ll start telling you the features, and the better ones will give you the benefits too. But that’s not what the real answer is.

“The real answer is, before I’m even going to sell a pen to anybody, I need to know about the person, I want to know what their needs are, what kind of pens do they use, do they use a pen? How often do they use a pen? Do they like to use a pen formally, to sign things, or use it in their everyday life? The first idea is that when you say ‘Sell me this pen,’ I want to hear [the salesman] ask me a question. ‘So tell me, how long have you been in the market for a pen?’ I want them to turn it around on me and start asking me questions to identify my needs, what I’m looking for. And if you do that, people don’t know what to do. Next thing, he is answering, and now I’m controlling the conversation, finding out exactly what he needs.

“Once I have that, I say, ‘You know, Bill, based on what you’ve just said to me, the pen I have here is the perfect fit. Let me tell you what it’s about…’ Then you can tell them about what you have, because you’re filling a need. Most average or newbie salespeople think that they’re supposed to sell you the pen, when a really seasoned salesperson will actually turn it into a qualifying session to find out what you need. That’s the truth of it. It’s like trying to sell someone a house and you don’t know if they’re in the market for a house, what kind of house they want, how many kids – so how can you sell someone a house? That’s the point.”

It's all about the needs...

you mean you were a SPY/james bond?

 

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[IAmTheJeff]

Thanks for bringing this thread back to life @Nur. I forgot how valuable this one is!!!

 

[pickeringmt]

Man, I have gotten so much out of this thread, THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME!

I may just copy this off and print it so I can read it through a few times. This thread has me reassessing everything I know about communication, and I studied communication in college.

You have some incredible knowledge and experience my friend. Thanks again!