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seamles

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Pretty awesome to see his recovery. Walking is always good!

Good luck to you both again. If you're ever in LA, I can get you a free DXA scan to look at your bone density haha (at least for the next year...)

If there's ever anything I can help with, feel free to ask! Your posts have already been extremely educational.
 
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COSenior

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Learned something interesting about BookBub again this week, at least I think it's interesting. You already know, I'm sure, that they advertise free or highly discounted books, at least a 50% discount. What I learned the other day was that they may reject a book if it's just discounted, but consider it again in 30 days (I think that's the time line) if you make it free instead. So, my second NS book will be advertised in the May 18 issue, and of course will be free for that day and the next four. By that time, should have the fourth published, with any luck. Bit of a time crunch because I'm only half done and I'm going out of town for Mother's Day. We shall see what happens.
 

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Thought I'd drop by and say hi and that I'm still writing. I've been keeping a log since last November and tonight got curious about my production since it's fallen off in the last month. Since January 1, I've written 462,770 words, edited two full-length novels I wrote for my client into one book, finished another and written half of a third. The first two are published now. Also included in the word count are four full-length novels under the Natasha Stories pen name, all published, and about 18 thousand words toward a new adult novel that I'm going to have to start over due to what I'm learning from @AubreyRose, @ChickenHawk and a book about writing for emotion, tension and conflict that I bought because i consider those my weakest points.

Along the way, I have slashed my adverb use and made other strides in learning to write. None of this is meant to toot my horn, it's merely an update on my progress. If I'm ever satisfied with a book after I've published it, I'll let you know.

I remain excited, more so than ever in fact, about this process.
 

mossie

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Thought I'd drop by and say hi and that I'm still writing. I've been keeping a log since last November and tonight got curious about my production since it's fallen off in the last month. Since January 1, I've written 462,770 words, edited two full-length novels I wrote for my client into one book, finished another and written half of a third. The first two are published now. Also included in the word count are four full-length novels under the Natasha Stories pen name, all published, and about 18 thousand words toward a new adult novel that I'm going to have to start over due to what I'm learning from @AubreyRose, @ChickenHawk and a book about writing for emotion, tension and conflict that I bought because i consider those my weakest points.

Along the way, I have slashed my adverb use and made other strides in learning to write. None of this is meant to toot my horn, it's merely an update on my progress. If I'm ever satisfied with a book after I've published it, I'll let you know.

I remain excited, more so than ever in fact, about this process.
Now if there is anyone here that think that is not amazingly impressive I would like to have a quiet chat with you about that. :)
 
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Magik

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a book about writing for emotion, tension and conflict that I bought because i consider those my weakest points.

Can you share what books these are? I'd say I've got some improving to do in this arena as well.
 
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COSenior

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Haha, me too. I'm always like "welp, not as good as Calvino. Maybe in ten years"
Would that be Italo Calvino? Can't find another author by that name, at least not on Amazon. I've never read him. Why would you compare your work to writing in translation? Or do you read the original Italian? I personally find translated books to be oddly phrased, so I don't read them often. I wouldn't have a clue how to evaluate them. I'm still stymied by the fact that I can recognize good writing but can't quite execute it to my satisfaction. Maybe in ten years. :)
 

AubreyRose

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Would that be Italo Calvino? Can't find another author by that name, at least not on Amazon. I've never read him. Why would you compare your work to writing in translation?
Doesn't matter; him and Marquez are my two favorite writers despite translation. Read Invisible Cities and you'll see what I mean :)

"From there, after six days and seven nights, you arrive at Zobeide, the white city, well exposed to the moon, with streets wound about themselves as in a skein. They tell this tale of its foundation: men of various nations had an identical dream. They saw a woman running at night through an unknown city; she was seen from behind, with long hair, and she was naked. They dreamed of pursuing her. As they twisted and turned, each of them lost her. After the dream, they set out in search of that city; they never found it, but they found one another; they decided to build a city like the one in the dream. In laying out the streets, each followed the course of his pursuit; at the spot where they had lost the fugitive's trail, they arranged spaces and walls differently from the dream, so she would be unable to escape again.

This was the city of Zobeide, where they settled, waiting for that scene to be repeated one night. None of them, asleep or awake, ever saw the woman again. The city's streets were streets where they went to work every day, with no link any more to the dreamed chase. Which, for that matter, had long been forgotten.

New men arrived from other lands, having had a dream like theirs, and in the city of Zobeide, they recognized something from the streets of the dream, and they changed the positions of arcades and stairways to resemble more closely the path of the pursued woman and so, at the spot where she had vanished, there would remain no avenue of escape.

The first to arrive could not understand what drew these people to Zobeide, this ugly city, this trap."

*falls over swooning*
 
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COSenior

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I have a good news/bad news story. The bad news is that one of our cars died, quite inconveniently, about six months before I estimated I'd be ready to buy a new one. The good news is that we were able to find one that literally has everything we could possibly want in a vehicle, at a relatively good price. The bad news is that it cost, not just an arm and a leg, but all four appendages. :arghh:

The good news is that I can earn the money for the payment. :) The bad news is that my arrangement with my client is coming to a point where there will be fewer hours and consequently less money. That's good news about fewer hours, actually, because I really want to get to a point where I'm just writing for royalties. It's just bad news about the money. Bottom line: I need to be certain I earn more, not less, until I can count on a certain level of royalties per month consistently.

Therefore, I have good news for anyone who might be interested. I'm offering my services as a proofreader/light copy editor. You can PM me for details. As a matter of general information, I expect light copy editing to include a first pass at proofreading for spelling and punctuation, correcting grammatical errors, POV and tense discontinuities and calling attention to (but not correcting) issues such as too many sentences in a row starting with the same word or phrase, overuse of individual words, etc.

For the next few weeks, I won't have a lot of availability as I finish up a book for @mossie. I might be able to handle something of novella length or less. After mid-June, availability will be more flexible.
 

COSenior

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I've noticed a trend in other threads that disturbs me a bit--not enough to start a fight with anyone whose philosophy is not the same as mine, but enough to say my piece.

It seems there are two, possibly three strategies among those of us who joined this community and began writing after reading @Held for Ransom's thread Hello from Denver. What an inspiring thread it was! A person who categorically stated he was not a writer, didn't claim to be anyway, and yet, after only seven months or so of putting out title after title, was making a five-figure income from his writing. He was even willing to give us the exact strategy he used to get there.

Like many of us, I set out to duplicate that. I'll say right now that I haven't done it. I'm not making enough on my books to live on, certainly, nor do I have a catalog that large (I write full-length novels). And yet, I persist. Why? Because I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. @ChickenHawk is one who's shining that light. In the nearly a year since HfR started his thread, though, a lot has changed in the industry. Some of us talk about that, others don't. I don't know whether everyone is doing the research or not, but I know it not only from my own research, but also from private conversations with both HfR and Chickenhawk. That's important, because recently there have been a spate of newer members who have taken that thread, gold as it may be, as gospel...unchanging gospel. IMHO, HfR would be the first to say, don't do that. Take it as a guide, to be sure, but do your own research to see what might have changed.

So, here are the strategies as I see them (this relates to fiction only, non-fiction adds another layer).

1) Write short titles, get them out as fast as possible, don't worry about style, quality or anything else...just get them out there. Optional: brag that you're not a writer but that you expect to kill it in the self-publishing industry, just like HfR. Make sure to spout second-hand advice as if you knew what you were talking about, to gain credibility, even though you may not have published a thing yet.

2) A variation of the first one, but hire ghostwriters to do the actual writing. Cheap ghostwriters.

3)Mine (and a few others). Write as fast as possible, but while you're doing that, study the craft. Strive to improve. Write at least novella-length titles with an eye to quality so that it (hopefully) takes fewer titles to achieve traction. Pay attention to trends in the marketplace and what that means for the structure and themes in your stories.

Clearly, I'm biased. I confess also to writing snobbery; that is, attention to mechanics, plot structure, pacing, all the stuff that makes the books you love to read memorable. I don't profess to have it down perfectly, but, I'm working on it. Constantly. Which brings up another point, and this one I've made before. I don't know how someone who admits to or even brags about never having been a fiction reader could possibly expect to succeed in writing fiction. I know, I know, HfR did it. There's an exception to every rule.

When I started, I gave myself a pass on all that (except mechanics--that's a natural extension of my college major combined with decades of avid reading). I told friends and family that I was a hack and didn't pretend to be anything else. Somewhere along the way, my philosophy changed. I may not be the best writer in the world, but I aspire to be a darn good one. Not only because I want to be proud of my work; but because, as I see it, it's the only way to the fastlane through this medium.

Working for the rest of your life, churning out story after story that flares briefly and then falls into oblivion is not fastlane. Fastlane is sustainable passive income achieved through process. Fastlane doesn't mean get rich quick. Within five years, I want to be someone who only continues to write because I love it, not because if I quit my income drops to virtually nothing. That requires success like that of countless mid-list authors whose body of work remains or will remain popular long after their deaths. Agatha Christie comes to mind. To even think of achieving that requires that your work have some degree of quality, even if it's commercial rather than a future literary classic. If I could ever be as good as, say, Dan Brown, Nora Roberts, John Grisham or the like--commercially popular writers whose work doesn't rise to the level of literary--I'd be over the moon. Heck, I'd even take Robin Cook's popularity, although IMO he's a hack like no other.

My point is, while you're writing a story and publishing it every couple of weeks, bear in mind that you need to improve, almost certainly. All of the lists, the marketing strategies and the formulas in the world won't make a sustainable passive income if everyone who reads your first title declines to read another because the first was unreadable.

Along the way, try not to mislead the other newbies with categorical statements about how many words they should be writing per day, how many titles it will require to make five figures, or how long it will take to know whether your book will sell. HfR's thread recorded his journey, but each of us takes a different one, even if we think we're following in his exact footsteps.
 

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I think this was directed to my post so i'll answer. To tell you the truth, I am a newbie. And I want to make money.

Hfr thread is what i'm modelling after only because I'm a newbie. I am not a writer, nor do I aspire to be. I don't want to read fiction unless it's something I'm studying. As a newbie you really have to figure your own way. This is mine. Which to me is basically trying to do what HFR did, which is to pump book after book, spinning the amazon roulette, hoping to improve with each successive title. Will it work? I have no clue. I have no MFA in writing, but all I care about is that I saw somebody who is a non-writer and seeing his success gives me some motivation. I learned from him.

With that being said. It takes 4 days writing at 2.5k words a day to complete a 10k word count book. If you have a kickass cover, blurb, and introduction then who will say nobody will buy it? I'm not here to produce the great American novel. I'm here to make money in the expense of literature.

Do I want to create an awesome book? Of course, but that comes after. I need to build the skill up and be a real writer to have a shot at the gold medal. I don't have shit now, and many who will read this will also come from my point of view. If I make it, then it will be another reason for another guy to come up and start spinning the amazon roulette.
 
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Selfy

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Doesn't matter; him and Marquez are my two favorite writers despite translation. Read Invisible Cities and you'll see what I mean :)

"From there, after six days and seven nights, you arrive at Zobeide, the white city, well exposed to the moon, with streets wound about themselves as in a skein. They tell this tale of its foundation: men of various nations had an identical dream. They saw a woman running at night through an unknown city; she was seen from behind, with long hair, and she was naked. They dreamed of pursuing her. As they twisted and turned, each of them lost her. After the dream, they set out in search of that city; they never found it, but they found one another; they decided to build a city like the one in the dream. In laying out the streets, each followed the course of his pursuit; at the spot where they had lost the fugitive's trail, they arranged spaces and walls differently from the dream, so she would be unable to escape again.

This was the city of Zobeide, where they settled, waiting for that scene to be repeated one night. None of them, asleep or awake, ever saw the woman again. The city's streets were streets where they went to work every day, with no link any more to the dreamed chase. Which, for that matter, had long been forgotten.

New men arrived from other lands, having had a dream like theirs, and in the city of Zobeide, they recognized something from the streets of the dream, and they changed the positions of arcades and stairways to resemble more closely the path of the pursued woman and so, at the spot where she had vanished, there would remain no avenue of escape.

The first to arrive could not understand what drew these people to Zobeide, this ugly city, this trap."

*falls over swooning*

Can you please stop putting out free books in my niche. Thanks.

Kidding aside. I read some of your books and I'm "enthralled" (thrall) by the way you write and convey your stories. I hope one day to be in the big leagues as yourself. In fact, I just registered in your self-pub website. Thanks for the inspiration.
 

COSenior

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I think this was directed to my post so i'll answer. To tell you the truth, I am a newbie. And I want to make money.

Hfr thread is what i'm modelling after only because I'm a newbie. I am not a writer, nor do I aspire to be. I don't want to read fiction unless it's something I'm studying. As a newbie you really have to figure your own way. This is mine. Which to me is basically trying to do what HFR did, which is to pump book after book, spinning the amazon roulette, hoping to improve with each successive title. Will it work? I have no clue. I have no MFA in writing, but all I care about is that I saw somebody who is a non-writer and seeing his success gives me some motivation. I learned from him.

With that being said. It takes 4 days writing at 2.5k words a day to complete a 10k word count book. If you have a kickass cover, blurb, and introduction then who will say nobody will buy it? I'm not here to produce the great American novel. I'm here to make money in the expense of literature.

Do I want to create an awesome book? Of course, but that comes after. I need to build the skill up and be a real writer to have a shot at the gold medal. I don't have shit now, and many who will read this will also come from my point of view. If I make it, then it will be another reason for another guy to come up and start spinning the amazon roulette.

Not only yours, this has been on my mind since before you showed up. I will point out that at 10k words what you have is a short story, not a book. Call it a title.

Like I said, we have a fundamental difference in philosophy. All I can say is good luck.
 

Selfy

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Thank you. We might have fundamental difference here, me being a "hack" writer, but in the end of the day I only care about my sales. I do not give a fxk all about trying to be a real writer. I just care about churning the books out. Different strategies for all people. But when I hit my 30th title, know that we will be seeing eye to eye.
 
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ChickenHawk

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Interesting debate...

I follow a lot of news about self-publishing -- blog postings, podcasts, all the great info here, and of course, my own experience. Obviously, HFR's amazing thread is true gold. But I can't help but wonder how easy his success would be to duplicate these days. I think some people will be able to duplicate it, while others might be disappointed. Here's why:

Price Competition from Traditional Publishers: A year or two ago, traditional publishers were still pricing their ebooks insanely high. Some still are, but others have started going head-to-head with indies. This means that instead of pricing their novels at $9.99, some big names are priced at, let's say $3.99, or $4.99, or even $2.99 or $0.99 as an intro. Way back when an Indie ebook cost a mere fraction of a traditionally published book, the indie book only had to be a fraction as good to offer a good value and gain readers. That's no longer the case today.

Indie Products Are Getting Better: In support of the self-pubbing craze, Indies have more support than ever. There are great cover designers, and editors within easy access. As a result, a reader might be hard pressed to figure out which books are Indies and which are traditionally published. This is good news overall, but bad news for anyone who wants to throw up badly written stuff and rake in the loot.

Better Writers Are Going the Indie Route: At the risk of sounding like a pompous boob, I'd include myself in this category. A few years ago, I'd never, ever consider going Indie. Not only was it a perceived mark of shame, you'd almost certainly ruin your changes of getting a traditional publishing deal, ever. Now, the trend is reversing. Today, publishers and agents are actively searching out Indies from the top seller lists and offering them deals. (I can attest to this personally.) When Held for Ransom started his venture, most strong, experienced writers were still avoiding self-pubbing like the plague. As a result, inexperienced writers, or maybe even writers who didn't like fiction at all, had less competition. Now, this is no longer the case.

Backlash Against Short Books: You see it all the time now on reviews. Readers are getting mad when they buy a "book," only to find it's more of a short story. It's true that some short books do great, and some get great reviews too. But readers are getting cranky about it. The book has to be exceptionally compelling, or well written, and definitely have a killer blurb & cover to achieve success in spite of its length. And honestly, I'm not sure how long those books can keep their position. Some will. Some won't. Regardless, they'll probably have an uphill battle.

Aaaaand.
IMO, Held for Ransom Is Overly Modest. I don't know HFR's pen name, but I'd be willing to bet that his writing is a lot better than he gives himself credit for. Even if his books aren't expertly written, they're probably kick-a$$ stories that people can't put down. He does all the writing himself, which means he's improving all the time. It also means that readers are getting attached to his "voice," meaning the way he writes, and how he tells a story. IMO, The odds of achieving this through a ghost writer are very rare for various reasons. (Dang, I still need to do a thread about this.)

A final note... If anyone wants to follow Held for Ransom's amazing lead, definitely go for it! All of us here are wishing you lots of success. But you also have to keep in mind that the publishing market is changing constantly. What worked a couple of years ago might not work quite so well today. You'll probably have to step up your game and be willing to fine-tune your craft. Love your readers, and respect that you're trying to build a long-term customer base who will be eager to buy your next book. If in doubt, jump in. Try it! And as I've said before, you might have to burn a pen name or two along the way, but it's better to try it than only wish you had. If lightning strikes, you can make AMAZING money in this, but it's not easy money. And of course, we're all rooting for you!
 

AubreyRose

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Kidding aside. I read some of your books and I'm "enthralled" (thrall) by the way you write and convey your stories. I hope one day to be in the big leagues as yourself. In fact, I just registered in your self-pub website. Thanks for the inspiration.
Thanks, hope you like them! By the way, I know your idea is to "churn the books out" and that will work at first. Eventually, though, your books need to be so dang good that you get fans who will spread them, and that's where the art of writing and storytelling comes in. You may say you don't care about being a "real" writer, but eventually you will have to be good at the art in order to increase your sales. You may be thinking you're just not a "literary" writer, which is fine, but don't fool yourself - once you are able to write well enough to gain fans of your work, you are a real writer, even if you don't have training in writing (I sure as heck don't).
 

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1) Write short titles, get them out as fast as possible, don't worry about style, quality or anything else...just get them out there. Optional: brag that you're not a writer but that you expect to kill it in the self-publishing industry, just like HfR. Make sure to spout second-hand advice as if you knew what you were talking about, to gain credibility, even though you may not have published a thing yet.

Lol, this was me to a "T" when I first started my progress thread. I'll be the first to admit to being humbled by the process.

3)Mine (and a few others). Write as fast as possible, but while you're doing that, study the craft. Strive to improve. Write at least novella-length titles with an eye to quality so that it (hopefully) takes fewer titles to achieve traction. Pay attention to trends in the marketplace and what that means for the structure and themes in your stories.

I feel this is more me now, as I look toward more polished, full-length products while having learned to keep my mouth shut with such limited experience under my belt.

Not only because I want to be proud of my work; but because, as I see it, it's the only way to the fastlane through this medium.

Agree. With anyone being able to publish for pennies (quite literally), I think the real barrier to entry comes in the form of execution, quality, marketing, and skill at the craft of writing and storytelling.

Whether it's the only path to fastlane with writing, who knows -- I certainly don't have enough expereince to say. I just know that I'm grateful so many people share their progress. On one hand you have @Held for Ransom and his method, then you have @ChickenHawk and her method. Both processes appear different in many ways, but each seems works for them -- which is a good point that you noted.

I don't know how someone who admits to or even brags about never having been a fiction reader could possibly expect to succeed in writing fiction. I know, I know, HfR did it. There's an exception to every rule.

I feel like you're calling me out, lol. This was me too, but I've wised up. I agree with you, how can you have an intimate understanding of your genre if you don't even read it? Once I asked myself this question, I got to reading and have been growing my kindle library steadily.

All of the lists, the marketing strategies and the formulas in the world won't make a sustainable passive income if everyone who reads your first title declines to read another because the first was unreadable.

Agree here too. Speed of production, marketing, etc doesn't mean anything if nobody is enjoying the stories you're producing.
 
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ChickenHawk

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With anyone being able to publish for pennies (quite literally), I think the real barrier to entry comes in the form of execution, quality, marketing, and skill at the craft of writing and storytelling.
This is a terrific point. It wasn't that long ago that simply publishing a book, and then offering it for free, for even a short while, virtually guaranteed lots of readers and the potential to rank on the paid charts after the free run was over. Now, even authors who give their books away for nothing aren't guaranteed a readership. The real secret is reaching that next-highest level, where you're gaining true fans.
 

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The question i like is "how are you going to get more people to read your book?" It would be logical that a higher ranking is the way to do this, beyond the occasional paid promos. To get a higher ranking, a good number of people must buy your book. Aha.

Keep crafting and giving the market what it wants. Really, every lesson is outlined in HFR's thread. Too easy to forget the basics and overthink it, or trying to get too cute and outsmart the market. Best to just remember the basics and WORK.
 

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I feel like you're calling me out, lol. This was me too, but I've wised up. I agree with you, how can you have an intimate understanding of your genre if you don't even read it? Once I asked myself this question, I got to reading and have been growing my kindle library steadily.
Not at all. I didn't remember who all I had heard that from, but it's a lot. I'm glad you are reading now. Reading other people's work is really the only way to tell if yours is any good. That's why I'm constantly striving to improve--otherwise I'd just fall into despair and know that I'll never be as good as this, that or the other one. Just re-read The Help, and rediscovered that it was a first novel. (Dies) I have a long way to go.
 
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Thriftypreneur

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Therefore, I have good news for anyone who might be interested. I'm offering my services as a proofreader/light copy editor. You can PM me for details. As a matter of general information, I expect light copy editing to include a first pass at proofreading for spelling and punctuation, correcting grammatical errors, POV and tense discontinuities and calling attention to (but not correcting) issues such as too many sentences in a row starting with the same word or phrase, overuse of individual words, etc.

Can vouch for this work. She offered to read my first story just to give me feedback, but ended up doing a light proofreading pass and I was very pleasantly surprised at the feedback. It helped me clean up quite a few mistakes that I didn't even realize were mistakes. Would definitely recommend, particularly to new writers. :)
 

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Thought I'd drop in and give an update, since it seems like forever since I've done it.

I'm still plugging away, but haven't published anything new since the original publication of the second thriller in the series that I'm writing with @mossie. I'm thinking that was about five weeks ago, but he's published some corrections, so I can't tell from the sales page. We've been hammering out a third thriller, which I'm really happy with, and are just about done with edits and re-writes, so I expect that will be out mid-July or sooner.

I've been writing a romance in a different genre under a new pen name, and I've got that about 70% finished. Need to do a lot of work on author website, email sign-up technology, setting up some social media, and hopefully attracting a street team that will give me enough reviews to start with so that I can use some marketing sites before I'll be ready to publish it. Was hoping mid-July, but more likely end of July.

The new Natasha Stories book will be New Adult genre and very close to current top 10 themes. Doing research right now, haven't started plotting, much less writing, but I have a concept. I'm aiming for no later than the end of August for that one, preferably end of July, but I have to be realistic...there are only so many hours in the day.

Royalties have been satisfactory, though not spectacular. I'm content that, as my sister-in-law says, my ship will come in, sooner or later.

I've been lurking here or there, but spending more time out of doors, walking or hiking, to counteract the weight I've put on by keeping myself tied to the computer eight-ten hours a day. Consequently both my social presence and my word count has suffered, but I need to be healthy in the long haul, so sacrifices must be made.

That is all, carry on. :)
 
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ChickenHawk

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I've been writing a romance in a different genre under a new pen name, and I've got that about 70% finished.
Once again, I'm in awe of your writing speed. I maintain my suspicion that you're either a cyborg or one of those Twilighty non-sleeping vampires.

I've been lurking here or there, but spending more time out of doors, walking or hiking, to counteract the weight I've put on by keeping myself tied to the computer eight-ten hours a day.
This is SO smart. I've been trying to do this more, too, and I always feel better for it. Unfortunately, I don't do it enough, and I'm suffering from a rather unsightly case of writer's-a$$.
 

COSenior

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one of those Twilighty non-sleeping vampires.
I go to bed at 11 p.m. and am up at 6:30-ish, plus usually a half-hour nap in the afternoon. I get plenty of sleep, lol. This does not mean I'm a cyborg, but I can't prove it.


I'm suffering from a rather unsightly case of writer's-a$$.
I'm stealing this description--very apt for me and hilarious to boot.
 

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